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PAPI and ILS Cat 2 or 3 operations

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PAPI and ILS Cat 2 or 3 operations

Old 17th Sep 2015, 11:56
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Doha, Qatar
Age: 38
Posts: 16
PAPI and ILS Cat 2 or 3 operations

Hai friends,

Its just a doubt arised during discussion with my colleagues today.

As per Annex 14, PAPI (or any Visual approach slope indicator) is mandatory for turbojet aircraft operations.

For ILS cat 3B operation the RVR can be up to 50m.

In most of the case the missed approach points are at 1 DME or more. In such RVR conditions whether PAPI will be visible to the pilot ?

So whats the relevance in making PAPI mandatory for operations ?

Pls give your opinion.
staraviator is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2015, 13:10
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 5nm NE of EGTC
Age: 66
Posts: 231
Don't know, but I do remember having to do a software change in our simulator so that when our German customer was training, the PAPIs were disabled when the RVR was equal to, or less than 350 metres. This was a LBA requirement as part of their approval for the German airline to use a UK CAA-approved sim (pre-JAR).
Simtech is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2015, 13:23
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 246
PAPI and ILS Cat 2 or 3 operations

Papi's are not required, nit even on an NPA. There are runways without them and sometimes they are notam'ed US.
JeroenC is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2015, 05:40
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 670
For CAT 3 ops the Papis are selected off as part of the standard setting.
Tower Ranger is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2015, 21:09
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cheshire, England
Posts: 181
Really? I don't think so.
octavian is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2015, 22:16
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 670
The reason they're selected off in Cat 3A and B ops is due to reduced vis it's unlikely pilots will be able to see the full pattern which may lead to confusion. Try selecting CAT 3 on your A/D lighting panel and see what happens, I know what happens on ours.
Tower Ranger is offline  
Old 19th Sep 2015, 18:13
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Toronto
Age: 53
Posts: 525
In Canada PAPIs are switched off when the ceiling is below 500 feet but its a manual selection done when the METAR indicates. Selecting a runway's CAT3 menu will not permit the PAPIs to be illuminated.

I don't recall this being the case in the UK but its been a while.
cossack is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2015, 15:13
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 441
Ahhhh, sometimes it's nice being a bog-standard CAT I operation
good egg is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2015, 19:03
  #9 (permalink)  
Sir George Cayley
Posts: n/a
Precision Approach Path Indicator. The name gives it away. They give guidance down to the ground if there is no ILS Glide Path. Harmonisation reduces as one nears the ground but at this point we're looking to flare aren't we.

When you next pull into your road at night turn off your headlights as you approach your driveway in case of dazzle.

See? Daft idea isn't it. UK invented PAPIs - UK keeps them on all the time.


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