Heathrow ATC
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
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SH,
Yet again you apparently demonstrate that your knowledge of the UK's ATM/airspace regulatory environment is lacking. You do know it's the CAA who make the decision, don't you?
And yes, I do care. I, and the vast majority of my colleagues care about providing the best service to all airspace users within the bounds of UK procedures and regulatory expectations, which again are the responsibility of the CAA.
Don't worry! I am in touch with various people who are submitting them on the behalf of UK's 'clockwork mice'. I was kinda expecting you to throw them out the window anyway so why should you care?
And yes, I do care. I, and the vast majority of my colleagues care about providing the best service to all airspace users within the bounds of UK procedures and regulatory expectations, which again are the responsibility of the CAA.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
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I'm a very regular user of LHR airspace under VFR and SVFR and I say the controllers are excellent. Proficient pilots have no difficulty dealing with both them and the airspace.
Those who can't cope because of their own limitations tend to find it easier to blame other factors. As the forum rules say, don't feed the trolls....
Those who can't cope because of their own limitations tend to find it easier to blame other factors. As the forum rules say, don't feed the trolls....
Join Date: Jul 2010
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And yes, I do care. I, and the vast majority of my colleagues care about providing the best service to all airspace users within the bounds of UK procedures and regulatory expectations
I look forward to working with you when I fly over London, VFR on a great sunny day, at say 7,000-9,000 feet in future. I also look forward to crossing over Heathrow Airport, just as I do at other airports that are similar if not busier.
As the forum rules say, don't feed the trolls....
The accident rates deduced in the figures above are largely irrelevant to the discussion, unless such accidents are ATC-related.
Last edited by soaringhigh650; 19th Jun 2015 at 09:42.
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I am a pilot. Not a regulatory or ATM expert.
Similarly I don't expect you to understand how I operate and fly my airplane.
I only make noise if I believe I am shut out unreasonably.
It's that simple.
Similarly I don't expect you to understand how I operate and fly my airplane.
I only make noise if I believe I am shut out unreasonably.
It's that simple.
Last edited by soaringhigh650; 19th Jun 2015 at 12:03.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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So you think it's "reasonable" to potter across LHR or any busier airport you can find, good luck with that btw, at 7000ft VFR?
Surely nobody can be that blinkered? Unfortunately your frighteningly poor appreciation of the big picture clearly illustrates why you should be kept well away from high intensity commercial hubs.
LHR ATCO's don't worry, you're every bit as good as the DXB ones lol.
Surely nobody can be that blinkered? Unfortunately your frighteningly poor appreciation of the big picture clearly illustrates why you should be kept well away from high intensity commercial hubs.
LHR ATCO's don't worry, you're every bit as good as the DXB ones lol.
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Unfortunately your frighteningly poor appreciation of the big picture clearly illustrates why you should be kept well away from high intensity commercial hubs.
Shall I refuse to call up for clearance and merely blunder on through your airspace or purposely ignore your instructions just because I believe you don't know how to fly a plane?
So you think it's "reasonable" to potter across LHR or any busier airport you can find, good luck with that btw, at 7000ft VFR?
Not blinkered. It's reality. The controllers at the major airports here accommodate me with absolutely no problem. Even the AIRPORT allows me to land there for a reasonable fee.
Sounds like some controllers here need a trip abroad and see how we do it here.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The rules do not allow VFR flight in Class A airspace. The controller has no discretion.
I suggest you either learn and understand the rules we are all obliged to abide by, or stay out of the airspace.
I suggest you either learn and understand the rules we are all obliged to abide by, or stay out of the airspace.
Mods
Why has soaringhigh650 been allowed back onto PPRuNe?
I thought he had been expelled following his previous rant about being denied entry to airspace over London - which was untrue IIRC.
I thought he had been expelled following his previous rant about being denied entry to airspace over London - which was untrue IIRC.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Starring at an Airfield Near you
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I am a pilot. Not a regulatory or ATM expert.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York Tracon
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Tower Ranger, I think you'd be flabbergasted if you ever got to see how we work countless VFR's at all altitudes right through the class bravo around our busiest terminal facilities. I don't doubt that Heathrow, or Dubai, or any of those other airports work a lot of traffic, but the controllers there work in a very sterile environment compared to us.
If you ever visit New York, let me know in a pm, and I'll try to set up a tour of the New York Tracon.
If you ever visit New York, let me know in a pm, and I'll try to set up a tour of the New York Tracon.
And, I think that he'd be equally flabbergasted by the amount of work done by the radar controllers at a UK airfield in Class G airspace, like Coventry, on a busy day !
I take my hat off to all of them at such airfields.
I take my hat off to all of them at such airfields.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I'm struggling to recollect any clockwork mouse vs. commercial airline collision over the UK, ever. I think there are other parts of the world where this has been a 'more frequent' occurrence. I'll happily forgo any particular right of passage I may desire in my RV against the thought of melding with a 100+ pax tube in Class D.
Once is too often.
Once is too often.
N90-EWR
You might find that it's hard to have foreign nationals visit tracon. My steph brother worked DFW center and could not get me in, as I was a foreign national. OK I'm a mere ATPL pilot, not a controller, maybe it was because it was in 2003 and everyone was jumping at shadows?
You might find that it's hard to have foreign nationals visit tracon. My steph brother worked DFW center and could not get me in, as I was a foreign national. OK I'm a mere ATPL pilot, not a controller, maybe it was because it was in 2003 and everyone was jumping at shadows?
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The TC team is indeed incredible...
People who moan and compain have obviously not visited Swanwick and spent a few hours staring at the green mush which is their radars. Last time I plugged in I was 3 minutes behind on NW DEPs... And I consider myself somewhat of a regular!
It's the one (only) thing I miss about being based in the London TMA.
People who moan and compain have obviously not visited Swanwick and spent a few hours staring at the green mush which is their radars. Last time I plugged in I was 3 minutes behind on NW DEPs... And I consider myself somewhat of a regular!
It's the one (only) thing I miss about being based in the London TMA.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Anyone familiar with busy US airports knows that you guys push a lot of traffic, including VFR. However, as I was trying to get through earlier, one cannot just compare a busy airport in the U.S. to a busy airport in, say, the UK.
There are significantly greater expectations put on us in terms of de-conflicting VFR and IFR traffic, fulfilling a duty of care towards all airspace users, as well as different restrictions put on how and when we can reduce separations between IFR and IFR.
I'm struggling to think of an analogy. I think it's like this: in the U.S., you can turn right on a red light at a junction. In the UK you cannot. This makes, all other things being equal, U.S. junctions more efficient than UK junctions. A U.S. driver visits the UK, sees this, and then starts having a go at the traffic policeman that is sitting near the junction for doing it wrong and doing it more slowly and less efficient than the U.S.
ATCOs all around the world usually do their best, but with very different rules and regulatory hurdles to overcome and abide by. Comparing them with crude measures such as number of aeroplanes per hour or whatever is not even half the story.
There are significantly greater expectations put on us in terms of de-conflicting VFR and IFR traffic, fulfilling a duty of care towards all airspace users, as well as different restrictions put on how and when we can reduce separations between IFR and IFR.
I'm struggling to think of an analogy. I think it's like this: in the U.S., you can turn right on a red light at a junction. In the UK you cannot. This makes, all other things being equal, U.S. junctions more efficient than UK junctions. A U.S. driver visits the UK, sees this, and then starts having a go at the traffic policeman that is sitting near the junction for doing it wrong and doing it more slowly and less efficient than the U.S.
ATCOs all around the world usually do their best, but with very different rules and regulatory hurdles to overcome and abide by. Comparing them with crude measures such as number of aeroplanes per hour or whatever is not even half the story.
Last edited by Gonzo; 24th Jun 2015 at 21:07.
Avoid imitations
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You fool. We've just gone full circle. Read the earlier posts in the thread before you bite.