Why report aircraft type?
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Why report aircraft type?
Was wondering the other day while departing a certain London airport, why does Delivery/Ground/Director require pilots to report aircraft type? Is the aircraft type not displayed on the strip/radar? I could understan when talking to Director as for wake seperation purposes but why on the ground?
Not a big issue, just curiosity
Not a big issue, just curiosity
To ensure the aircraft type is as per flight plan. Aircraft can get changed for a variety of reasons but the repetitive flight plan type remains the same.
Some airports may have taxi restrictions on certain types, and not others, so ensuring you know the correct type can avoid issues for example. Also to make sure correct wake turbulence separation is applied between departures.
Some airports may have taxi restrictions on certain types, and not others, so ensuring you know the correct type can avoid issues for example. Also to make sure correct wake turbulence separation is applied between departures.
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It isn't a big issue, but there have been situations where enroute control have been caught out by a type change that hasn't been updated in the system. Expecting an ATR-72 performance and unknowingly working an A319 can cause quite serious problems. It is rare, but it does happen.
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So basically it should only be an issue for folks using call signs and not the tail number of their airplane. Yet in the UK its almost an every ATIS...
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Years back I remember an incident when a USAF C5A Galaxy worked it's way through the (civil) ATC system (including ours) incorrectly indicated as an C141 Starlifter. The result was quite a nasty wake turbulence incident to an aircraft following it on the approach into Frankfurt which had been vectored too close behind.
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His dudeness. I know (from my own extraordinary capabilities) that air traffic controllers are superhuman but even they cannot retain the entire world civil aviation registers in their minds!!
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In the early days of dual-rated 757/767 crews we used to suffer from a few mistakes caused by a slip of the tongue or forgetfulness, and seven-fives would emerge from the overcast as seven-sixes. (I was once informed that the only difference was step up into the cockpit, dunno how true that is.) Usually it was a company Medium that suffered by being tucked-up too tightly behind behind the offender.
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His dudeness. I know (from my own extraordinary capabilities) that air traffic controllers are superhuman but even they cannot retain the entire world civil aviation registers in their minds!!
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…and flight numbers, buses, locos, etc. Still has a most incredible retentive memory for alphanumerics. He'd look at a trigraph on a number plate and tell you the type and an operator eg. (G-A)JAL = Hey look, a 'Japanair Auster' or whatever. If you forget your mobile number he'll remember it. AC, a living legend. There's only one thing he forgot...
Reminds of LATCC asking Bealine XXX Confirm Aircraft Type?" and reply was "Standby". After a few seconds "Bealine XXX have had a word with my First Officer and he advises me we are a Trident"....
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Seems we're masking the problem- Aircraft Operators' slackness in not amending their FPLs properly.
If you can afford to run a multi million (billion?) dollar fleet of aircraft, you can make sure than somebody puts in a CHG message properly.
Certainly in this region, RPLs are almost a thing of the past.
How can a crew walk out and go, oh bugger, my ATR72 turned into a 319???
Somebody in the company knew a lot more in advance than that.
That goes for DLA messages too.
If you can afford to run a multi million (billion?) dollar fleet of aircraft, you can make sure than somebody puts in a CHG message properly.
Certainly in this region, RPLs are almost a thing of the past.
How can a crew walk out and go, oh bugger, my ATR72 turned into a 319???
Somebody in the company knew a lot more in advance than that.
That goes for DLA messages too.
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Rocade
The controllers at the Centre are also interested in the aircraft type, and the Tower controller can pass on any type change either electronically or by telephone. Several en-route ATC systems use a flight path and performance prediction model that is tailored to aircraft type....and a whole range of additional factors are included in performance modelling.
There are significant performance differences between seemingly similar aircraft such as A319/A320/A321. As a salute to a colleagues post above [fireflybob] I can understand the request, because I've worked Trident 1/2/3 and believe me the Trident 1 climbed like a brick.....but you couldn't catch it. I think Northeast used Trident 1E which performed better.
There are significant performance differences between seemingly similar aircraft such as A319/A320/A321. As a salute to a colleagues post above [fireflybob] I can understand the request, because I've worked Trident 1/2/3 and believe me the Trident 1 climbed like a brick.....but you couldn't catch it. I think Northeast used Trident 1E which performed better.
My last flight on the old MD80 into Amsterdam was on a sunny day, initially vectored for ils rwy 06.
After initial contact with tower they asked if we could make a short visual to be number 1. We were always ready to be no. 1 so we made a visual that just kept us within company regulations and stabilized wings level at 500 feet.
Just then a Speedbird called in on the freq. and was told that they were number 2 following an MD80. Speedbird asked what wake turbulence category is an MD80 and there was silence, so I transmitted that we were "Medium".
Thats when the tower said: "My college in the tower says you're not medium, you're rare".
About not knowing what stand you're on, thats easy with some airports very poor markings and you might have been on a nightstop arriving at the stand directly with the crew car. Sitting in the cockpit you have no clue, no signs, no board indication, so I have transmitted :"we are on stand somewhere in the teens I believe".
After initial contact with tower they asked if we could make a short visual to be number 1. We were always ready to be no. 1 so we made a visual that just kept us within company regulations and stabilized wings level at 500 feet.
Just then a Speedbird called in on the freq. and was told that they were number 2 following an MD80. Speedbird asked what wake turbulence category is an MD80 and there was silence, so I transmitted that we were "Medium".
Thats when the tower said: "My college in the tower says you're not medium, you're rare".
About not knowing what stand you're on, thats easy with some airports very poor markings and you might have been on a nightstop arriving at the stand directly with the crew car. Sitting in the cockpit you have no clue, no signs, no board indication, so I have transmitted :"we are on stand somewhere in the teens I believe".
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We've always wondered why some of the European airlines always check in on our frequencies saying "and we're an xxx". I always feel like telling them "congratulations! That matches your datablock!"
Is that really an issue over there? In my 25 years working here at N90, I can't recall a single instance of an airliner coming in as one type, and turning out to be another. That's more likely to happen with one of the many general aviation aircraft we have buzzing around in VFR flight plans, but an airliner on a regularly scheduled flight plan?
Is that really an issue over there? In my 25 years working here at N90, I can't recall a single instance of an airliner coming in as one type, and turning out to be another. That's more likely to happen with one of the many general aviation aircraft we have buzzing around in VFR flight plans, but an airliner on a regularly scheduled flight plan?
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I don't know how much of a problem it is now but during my time it was almost a daily event - more sometimes - which is why the procedure was introduced. I guess in the US airlines are more switched on to updating ATC when changes are made.