Success rates of ATC wannabes
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Success rates of ATC wannabes
I have a question. What is the failure rate of ATC trainees who passed the initial aptitude/selection process, begin an ititial ATC course, but were never checked out as controllers in your area? (In percent please)
I would like to compare figures from different countries
I would like to compare figures from different countries
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt; 5th Apr 2015 at 20:15.
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Of the 8 people on my training course once we got to the unit, 2 of them didn't make it all. One didn't validate at that unit, but went on to validate elsewhere and the other 5 of us validated at the unit and 4 are still there now.
This is in the UK
This is in the UK
Last edited by The Many Tentacles; 5th Apr 2015 at 19:07.
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Could those who reply specify a country or at least a continent or a region, something that will allow a comparison. Thanks.
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt; 5th Apr 2015 at 20:16.
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<<Because of staff shortage, validation rate is close to 95% now - albeit very lengthy on-the-job training and incompetent controllers produced as a result.>>
I don't know where you work but that sounds incredibly dangerous. Remember you are playing with people's lives.
I don't know where you work but that sounds incredibly dangerous. Remember you are playing with people's lives.
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When I went through initial training in the US back in 1980, the washout rate was 50% in the facilities after the Academy at OKC. After the strike of '81, that improved to perhaps 70-80% passing.
Since about 2000, in my units, passing rate was around 80-85%, but they were giving those trainees way, way more time to qualify than back in the 1980s. In a busy up/down radar facility, had seen 4 years to qualify before I retired.
Maximum training hours varied up and down depending on how badly they needed people over the last 15 years or so. Also, when I was first hired, most everyone had an aviation background of some sort to qualify for hire. Not so after the strike. Many didn't know UHF from VHF or piston from turbine.
US Southwest region
Since about 2000, in my units, passing rate was around 80-85%, but they were giving those trainees way, way more time to qualify than back in the 1980s. In a busy up/down radar facility, had seen 4 years to qualify before I retired.
Maximum training hours varied up and down depending on how badly they needed people over the last 15 years or so. Also, when I was first hired, most everyone had an aviation background of some sort to qualify for hire. Not so after the strike. Many didn't know UHF from VHF or piston from turbine.
US Southwest region
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When I worked in the UK at one of the larger units the success rate was 2 in 3. The system used to be quite ruthless but qualification was made a bit easier by training on only one pair of sectors rather than two. Eventually the 'tick box' training system pretty much allowed as much time as was needed unless it was clear a trainee was completely clueless. This did leave the OJTIs wondering how the person had been allowed to make it that far!
Some of the trainees were very motivated and able but for quite a lot of them ATC was just a job. Their attitude was that if they didn't pass they would just try something else The motivator for most of the trainees I encountered seemed to be the comparatively high salary rather than any interest in aviation.
Some of the trainees were very motivated and able but for quite a lot of them ATC was just a job. Their attitude was that if they didn't pass they would just try something else The motivator for most of the trainees I encountered seemed to be the comparatively high salary rather than any interest in aviation.
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At my former unit, despite all their valiant efforts to improve recruitment procedures, the failure rate was roughly between 40% and 50%. Sadly today very few ATCOs have any interest in aviation. It's just a job and they perform as the trained robots they have become.
At Farnborough, many new arrivals had already failed ACS and were being given a 'second chance' at an airfield, but they hadn't done an APS course so could only do ADI/ADV initially and only if they got their C of C in the tower were they sent on an APS course.
Last edited by chevvron; 6th Apr 2015 at 15:00.
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Originally Posted by chevvron
At Farnborough, many new arrivals had already failed
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Success rates of ATC wannabes
I'm sorry, but being an aviation enthusiast does not, in any way, make you a better controller!
45% of the students on my intake went on to validate.
(UK)
45% of the students on my intake went on to validate.
(UK)
7500
You are, of course, quite correct. There is nothing about being an aviation enthusiast that makes you a better ATCOS than someone who is not an enthusiast.
What makes me prefer enthusiasts is the commitment to getting the job, keeping it & to carrying through this enthusiasm to the job once qualified.
I have seen many trainees over 40 years. I have seen quite a few fail & a lot who went on to be controllers. In my view, most ( but not all )of the best controllers came from the ranks of the "enthusiasts". That is, in no way, to suggest that some of the best controllers I have seen have not been "enthusiasts"; but, in my experience, a lot of the ones we lost were those who came from the "only in it for the money" brigade.
My course, all ex-assistants (& not all "enthusiasts") lost one out of 24. Which I believe is a record.
You are, of course, quite correct. There is nothing about being an aviation enthusiast that makes you a better ATCOS than someone who is not an enthusiast.
What makes me prefer enthusiasts is the commitment to getting the job, keeping it & to carrying through this enthusiasm to the job once qualified.
I have seen many trainees over 40 years. I have seen quite a few fail & a lot who went on to be controllers. In my view, most ( but not all )of the best controllers came from the ranks of the "enthusiasts". That is, in no way, to suggest that some of the best controllers I have seen have not been "enthusiasts"; but, in my experience, a lot of the ones we lost were those who came from the "only in it for the money" brigade.
My course, all ex-assistants (& not all "enthusiasts") lost one out of 24. Which I believe is a record.
being an aviation enthusiast does not, in any way, make you a better controller!
Back to the OPs question: -
In the UK when I was a trainee about a third of my course did not get though each stage of training. A few were given a second chance (more timing of places available than skill of the trainee) so maybe half of the course continued employment to endorsement.
I would wholeheartedly agree that training success is often increased with staff shortages. Wrong, but true.
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<<Because of staff shortage, validation rate is close to 95% now - albeit very lengthy on-the-job training and incompetent controllers produced as a result.>>
I don't know where you work but that sounds incredibly dangerous. Remember you are playing with people's lives.
I don't know where you work but that sounds incredibly dangerous. Remember you are playing with people's lives.
That's ok, I'm not into doing daft or dangerous things just because a voice tells me to.
That said, you're just as dead if an instruction that sounds perfectly sensible to you turns out, with hindsight, to have been the one that kills you.
Dan Dare
I completely agree with your first paragraph. However, to compare controlling with musicianship is somewhat misleading, I feel.
I have no doubt that having a love of & interest in music will enable one to deliver a virtuoso performance (more so than a musician who does not possess these qualities). But, are the two professions exactly the same ? Would a person who was not interested in music ever become a professional musician ? I have my doubts !
We do know, however, that there are ATCOS who have no intrinsic love of aviation & pursue an ATC career for somewhat different reasons. What I was suggesting is that it is undoubtedly true that such ATCOS can be as good at the job as an enthusiast.
Enthusiasm is not a prerequisite, but being one helps you to make the effort to be selected, qualify, gives you initial experience (for instance, by starting as an ATCA), keeps you dedicated, improves your peripheral knowledge of the job, gives you extra knowledge (which a non-enthusiast may not have),gives you added experience (knowing the ropes) & helps you through the more difficult times.
As I said, in my experience, "give me an aviation enthusiast any day". - & some non-enthusiasts also !
I completely agree with your first paragraph. However, to compare controlling with musicianship is somewhat misleading, I feel.
I have no doubt that having a love of & interest in music will enable one to deliver a virtuoso performance (more so than a musician who does not possess these qualities). But, are the two professions exactly the same ? Would a person who was not interested in music ever become a professional musician ? I have my doubts !
We do know, however, that there are ATCOS who have no intrinsic love of aviation & pursue an ATC career for somewhat different reasons. What I was suggesting is that it is undoubtedly true that such ATCOS can be as good at the job as an enthusiast.
Enthusiasm is not a prerequisite, but being one helps you to make the effort to be selected, qualify, gives you initial experience (for instance, by starting as an ATCA), keeps you dedicated, improves your peripheral knowledge of the job, gives you extra knowledge (which a non-enthusiast may not have),gives you added experience (knowing the ropes) & helps you through the more difficult times.
As I said, in my experience, "give me an aviation enthusiast any day". - & some non-enthusiasts also !
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How can an instruction kill me?! My fate is in my hands alone. It's only my action or inaction that'll snuff me.