Dismissed Doha controller
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Dismissed Doha controller
Been hearing some rumours about an ex NATS controller whose been dismissed in Doha. Anyone got any idea about why or under what circumstances or if it's even true? The rumour was that he didn't do anything wrong and was made a scapegoat for something a bit political. Thought it might also be of interest to some of my old colleagues back in the UK thinking of heading over there.
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Stay away from Qatar
In answer to the above inquiry...Yes a controller has been fired for absolutely one-hundred percent no fault of his or for a lack of anything he did. Every controller would have done the same because the controller did what was a part of his every day duties and protocol. He could have never imagined or envisioned his performance could have initiated any form of discipline or reprisal.
In pure Middle East form (well some Countries or States that still live in the dark age) local clowns who have no concept of professionalism, integrity, and right from wrong have attempted to "cover their ass," by firing/disciplining someone beneath them for mistakes made because they did not administer their responsibilities properly.
It is rumoured the "clown' in this case is the Prime Minister but that can not be substantiated by this author. In any case the Qatar Director of ANS or about 4 other managers down the line should have stood up at some point and defended the ATCO and expressed what is clearly understood by all involved, that this is WRONG! It also doesn't say much for a few EXPAT managers at the administrative level overseeing the operation. In the Western World if anyone would have had to take the fall it would be one of these managers including the local Qatari manager who authorized this flight in question which was all the ATCO was obliged to do.
Again a crazy disrespectful place. If you are desperate or just don't have any other options in life then I guess you still might consider working in Qatar but otherwise no sane professional should look at this horrible place. A few of us here who have options are now making arrangements to ride the motorway out of here.
In pure Middle East form (well some Countries or States that still live in the dark age) local clowns who have no concept of professionalism, integrity, and right from wrong have attempted to "cover their ass," by firing/disciplining someone beneath them for mistakes made because they did not administer their responsibilities properly.
It is rumoured the "clown' in this case is the Prime Minister but that can not be substantiated by this author. In any case the Qatar Director of ANS or about 4 other managers down the line should have stood up at some point and defended the ATCO and expressed what is clearly understood by all involved, that this is WRONG! It also doesn't say much for a few EXPAT managers at the administrative level overseeing the operation. In the Western World if anyone would have had to take the fall it would be one of these managers including the local Qatari manager who authorized this flight in question which was all the ATCO was obliged to do.
Again a crazy disrespectful place. If you are desperate or just don't have any other options in life then I guess you still might consider working in Qatar but otherwise no sane professional should look at this horrible place. A few of us here who have options are now making arrangements to ride the motorway out of here.
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The controller's contract was to be terminated in a couple of months. Sounds like being fired to me!
Unless, of course he 'voluntarily' resigns.
Apparently the initial reaction was to fire (or voluntarily resign) the entire crew but expat managers intervened and limited the damage.
I find this to be exaggerated because I can't believe they would listen to an expat.
Unless, of course he 'voluntarily' resigns.
Apparently the initial reaction was to fire (or voluntarily resign) the entire crew but expat managers intervened and limited the damage.
I find this to be exaggerated because I can't believe they would listen to an expat.
Last edited by the Shue; 14th Dec 2014 at 13:48. Reason: no use good English
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Mr CuitoCuanavale
There is a lot of references you made to planets beyond Earth's atmosphere... and although I dislike to make this personal I can no longer resist.
Please, please quit being the sole supporter of the QCAA. Of the last 30 or so ATCO's who have worked as approach controllers in Doha which would span a number of years, there are less then can be counted on one hand persons who would reflect on the QCAA as respectable, professional, or reasonable. Yes you came from a worse scenario and as hard as that is to believe... in life there is "always worse," however that does not constitute a positive approval for this rag tag operation.
Whatever planet you came from doesn't change the circumstances that the controller was terminated and he nor anyone has to hide this other than the QCAA as they should be ashamed. In a professional organization the HR people take the time to investigate the circumstances and make their own determination and I can assure you a number of employers have already looked into this matter and have formed the appropriate determination. I know this as I have also been in communication with the same employers as I am leaving and they have implicitly expressed their appropriate assessment of the situation.
Every time you splash your ridiculous verbiage and defence of the QCAA you continue to lose respect of your current, former and future coworkers (who will determine this shortly after their arrival). While it is your right of free speech, my god 99% of ATCO's poled can't be that wrong! The QCAA are a bunch of clowns. Broken promises, revoking of contactual conditions and dangling a carrot of a better contract indefinitely. These are not a set of parameters a professional and respectful employer portrays.
The individual in question will not have any any difficulty finding employment, I am certain of this and please do not portray the QCAA as being kind or correct in this matter. If your concern was truly for the welfare of this ATCO I would have expected you to take a stance in your disappointment with our employer's actions. I know my position on this matter will become very clear when my notice is given in the near future.
There is a lot of references you made to planets beyond Earth's atmosphere... and although I dislike to make this personal I can no longer resist.
Please, please quit being the sole supporter of the QCAA. Of the last 30 or so ATCO's who have worked as approach controllers in Doha which would span a number of years, there are less then can be counted on one hand persons who would reflect on the QCAA as respectable, professional, or reasonable. Yes you came from a worse scenario and as hard as that is to believe... in life there is "always worse," however that does not constitute a positive approval for this rag tag operation.
Whatever planet you came from doesn't change the circumstances that the controller was terminated and he nor anyone has to hide this other than the QCAA as they should be ashamed. In a professional organization the HR people take the time to investigate the circumstances and make their own determination and I can assure you a number of employers have already looked into this matter and have formed the appropriate determination. I know this as I have also been in communication with the same employers as I am leaving and they have implicitly expressed their appropriate assessment of the situation.
Every time you splash your ridiculous verbiage and defence of the QCAA you continue to lose respect of your current, former and future coworkers (who will determine this shortly after their arrival). While it is your right of free speech, my god 99% of ATCO's poled can't be that wrong! The QCAA are a bunch of clowns. Broken promises, revoking of contactual conditions and dangling a carrot of a better contract indefinitely. These are not a set of parameters a professional and respectful employer portrays.
The individual in question will not have any any difficulty finding employment, I am certain of this and please do not portray the QCAA as being kind or correct in this matter. If your concern was truly for the welfare of this ATCO I would have expected you to take a stance in your disappointment with our employer's actions. I know my position on this matter will become very clear when my notice is given in the near future.
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Help out a Colleague
To set aside Doha opinions for a moment.
The controller that will no longer be working here is an excellent controller, a very good instructor, a very nice guy to work with and a family man.
He does not know that I am writing this but if there are any approach units that could use such a talent, would you mind dropping a link in this thread.
Appreciated.
The controller that will no longer be working here is an excellent controller, a very good instructor, a very nice guy to work with and a family man.
He does not know that I am writing this but if there are any approach units that could use such a talent, would you mind dropping a link in this thread.
Appreciated.
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I would work with the controller in question again in a heartbeat. I was on the same watch during my time in the sandpit, and it could have so easily been me had I still been there and taken the call on the day in question. I am shocked at his treatment, but unfortunately am not that surprised.
Best of luck to the individual concerned and I have no doubt they will be able to find alternative employment without any significant delay. Doha has just lost a very good controller!
-HD-
Best of luck to the individual concerned and I have no doubt they will be able to find alternative employment without any significant delay. Doha has just lost a very good controller!
-HD-
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Just to add that I too have worked with the Atco in question in the past and to see him in this position beggars belief!! A very sad and unjustified loss ... to the unit and colleagues alike.
This aside .....C.C may I suggest a show of support for your colleagues and actually admit to the world that there HAS and ALWAYS will be major issues with the said unit , you really do have no support beyond your colleagues and ,people REALLY .........Just to reiterate....REALLY need to know the reality and Gravity of entertaining an offer from said unit.
Instead of continually trying to support a LOST CAUSE keystone cop outfit!
If this isn't in your remit then maybe a vow of silence may be order??!!
This aside .....C.C may I suggest a show of support for your colleagues and actually admit to the world that there HAS and ALWAYS will be major issues with the said unit , you really do have no support beyond your colleagues and ,people REALLY .........Just to reiterate....REALLY need to know the reality and Gravity of entertaining an offer from said unit.
Instead of continually trying to support a LOST CAUSE keystone cop outfit!
If this isn't in your remit then maybe a vow of silence may be order??!!
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I think what people are taking issue with is your line of argument that the Doha authorities did nothing wrong, and that
Do you really think people are so stupid that they think that if someone "resigns", the employer is somehow absolved of any wrong? Clearly, that is the line you are spinning.
Sorry. Bull$hit.
Furthermore, you really make yourself out to be a chest-beating ****** when you proclaim Doha as some sort of ATC world-power.....
Doha is considered THE BIGGEST JOKE in the middle east, let alone the rest of the world (who would not even have heard of it). You don't even run your own airspace! You have an undermanned, underpaid, over-worked bunch of controllers (read; $hit conditions), dealing with antique processes and management.
Sorry to rain on your verbose parade. You really are kidding yourself if you think anything out of Doha influences a career one way or another.
The staff member in question resigned.
Sorry. Bull$hit.
Furthermore, you really make yourself out to be a chest-beating ****** when you proclaim Doha as some sort of ATC world-power.....
Doha is considered THE BIGGEST JOKE in the middle east, let alone the rest of the world (who would not even have heard of it). You don't even run your own airspace! You have an undermanned, underpaid, over-worked bunch of controllers (read; $hit conditions), dealing with antique processes and management.
Sorry to rain on your verbose parade. You really are kidding yourself if you think anything out of Doha influences a career one way or another.
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Thank God...there's a place like Doha....so the rest of the region can dump theirs....at 300kts or more...or no DIP clerance (panicking) on a bunch of people bending backwards...
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With friends like that....
Cuito, I have a slight confession, I was far more familiar with the events at time of posting and have since had my suspicions confirmed by ex-colleagues working at your unit. I have also had the past pleasure of working alongside the individual in question and I would like to reiterate the sentiments of Shue and LL Dictator in praise of both his ability and character. In contrast, I'm quite confident I have never had the privilege of working on your 'team' and judging by your support towards your fellow controller I consider myself extremely fortunate in that fact. I can partially see where you're coming from in relation to the whole resignation/sacking debate and the role social media plays regarding future employment but your defence of the QCAA actions in this case was deplorable. I have trusted confidants who are consistent in their reports of the absolute injustice meted out, not to mention those in this thread, and I fail to see how you justify the disciplinary actions with your "well it's your choice to work here or not" attitude. You seem to take solace in the statistic of only one sacking in over 10 years of your residence, can you please clarify if that is in reference to this particular case or does this still fall in to the category of voluntary resignation on your planet? I wonder how many previously fell on their resignation sword in order to try and salvage their career and pride?
The reason everybody is apparently misunderstanding you on here is because until that last waffle you have shown absolutely no sympathy for the individual in question and your recent compassion strikes as an afterthought following your criticisms. Whereas the rest of us are primarily concerned with the welfare of this family man who has unjustifiably been given a couple of months to leave the country and will be torn from his loving environment in the hope of securing employment somewhere within commuting distance. I don't know your family situation or your relationship to the individual but I'm absolutely certain that if you had been unfortunate enough to be in the seat that day then you would have received nothing but sympathy and support from that person, regardless of any possible standing issues between you both. And I'm not only saying that because I once worked with the person, I would expect the same compassion and 'but for the Grace of God' appreciation of any civilised human being.
You also seem infatuated with him/her having burned their bridges upon 'termination'. From what I've heard the individual has retained dignity throughout this travesty and let me tell you if that had been me in that situation I would have been far more vociferous in my condemnation of my so-called managers. As with many of your observations, you couldn't be wider of the mark if you actually contemplate that an application will be arriving from this poster. No person living in the real World, yourself obviously excluded, would contemplate applying for such an unstable position based on these events. And please don't imply that there are two sides to the story here, I have had the FACTS confirmed by three separate and unrelated individuals and there is no inconsistency in the reports of the actions undertaken.
I'm sure you will redress my observations with further eloquent ramblings but for the sake of your soon to become ex-colleague it may be appreciated if you at least expressed some solidarity and stood by a very maltreated fellow controller instead of trying to enlighten us all on the customs of the Middle Eastern 'management' structure. You say he knows your true feelings and that he has your sympathies, not from reading this thread I'm guessing? Obviously it's just the rest of the ATC community you're fooling then.
Get behind your colleague now before it's too late because the next time your paths cross you may just be on the way down from your pedestal.
The reason everybody is apparently misunderstanding you on here is because until that last waffle you have shown absolutely no sympathy for the individual in question and your recent compassion strikes as an afterthought following your criticisms. Whereas the rest of us are primarily concerned with the welfare of this family man who has unjustifiably been given a couple of months to leave the country and will be torn from his loving environment in the hope of securing employment somewhere within commuting distance. I don't know your family situation or your relationship to the individual but I'm absolutely certain that if you had been unfortunate enough to be in the seat that day then you would have received nothing but sympathy and support from that person, regardless of any possible standing issues between you both. And I'm not only saying that because I once worked with the person, I would expect the same compassion and 'but for the Grace of God' appreciation of any civilised human being.
You also seem infatuated with him/her having burned their bridges upon 'termination'. From what I've heard the individual has retained dignity throughout this travesty and let me tell you if that had been me in that situation I would have been far more vociferous in my condemnation of my so-called managers. As with many of your observations, you couldn't be wider of the mark if you actually contemplate that an application will be arriving from this poster. No person living in the real World, yourself obviously excluded, would contemplate applying for such an unstable position based on these events. And please don't imply that there are two sides to the story here, I have had the FACTS confirmed by three separate and unrelated individuals and there is no inconsistency in the reports of the actions undertaken.
I'm sure you will redress my observations with further eloquent ramblings but for the sake of your soon to become ex-colleague it may be appreciated if you at least expressed some solidarity and stood by a very maltreated fellow controller instead of trying to enlighten us all on the customs of the Middle Eastern 'management' structure. You say he knows your true feelings and that he has your sympathies, not from reading this thread I'm guessing? Obviously it's just the rest of the ATC community you're fooling then.
Get behind your colleague now before it's too late because the next time your paths cross you may just be on the way down from your pedestal.
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I do not know the individual involved...
CC I can see your point about the resignation/sacking distinction; however your desire to protect is not required. I work with a large ANSP in the Uk and have spoke to several 'managers' on the issue. They all appear to have the facts and are quite shocked with management, opinions of the individual involved have not diminished. I am sure he will be able to secure future employment.
Conditions have not been that great in the UK recently due cost-cutting/pensions/promotion prospects etc which have caused younger ATCOs to cast their eyes elsewhere. I and several others were looking at Doha and have now 'pulled away' after undertaking assessments.
Things will need to change or more £££ offered for people to take the plunge as they weigh up risk/reward.
It is quite clear QCAA have not only caused considerable stress and personal strife to the person they have shot themselves in the foot in the ATC community (a limited resource!!!)
CC I can see your point about the resignation/sacking distinction; however your desire to protect is not required. I work with a large ANSP in the Uk and have spoke to several 'managers' on the issue. They all appear to have the facts and are quite shocked with management, opinions of the individual involved have not diminished. I am sure he will be able to secure future employment.
Conditions have not been that great in the UK recently due cost-cutting/pensions/promotion prospects etc which have caused younger ATCOs to cast their eyes elsewhere. I and several others were looking at Doha and have now 'pulled away' after undertaking assessments.
Things will need to change or more £££ offered for people to take the plunge as they weigh up risk/reward.
It is quite clear QCAA have not only caused considerable stress and personal strife to the person they have shot themselves in the foot in the ATC community (a limited resource!!!)
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Cuito
as regards Qatar spreading the word that they are an excellent unit to work at they have, in this instance, shot themselves in both feet. Not too many expats will be winging their way to Doha.
as regards Qatar spreading the word that they are an excellent unit to work at they have, in this instance, shot themselves in both feet. Not too many expats will be winging their way to Doha.
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 19th Dec 2014 at 11:13.
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I'll translate for those who can't be bothered:
CC said "I am too spineless to tell you. Also, the actual reason would make any defense of Doha ATC ridiculous and an act of utter obsequiousness."
What is the ATCO supposed to have done to get him fired?