Blackpool RT Transmissions
Blackpool RT Transmissions
Transited past Blackpool a couple of times recently on a superbly provided basic service , usually at a range of about 10 miles inland. At around 1500 to 2000ft. Radio reception is sometimes very feint and hard to distinguish from ATC.
Anybody else had this ??? I can hear every other aircraft on frequency including those on the ground requesting start and airfield info but ATC can be sporadically feint.
I know it's not the aircraft radio as no other airfield appears to have such sporadic feint transmissions.
Is it just due to the height being flown ? found the signals stronger from Blackpool ATC at a range of 10 miles north of the field than 10 miles east or south ""
Anyone else observed this ??
Anybody else had this ??? I can hear every other aircraft on frequency including those on the ground requesting start and airfield info but ATC can be sporadically feint.
I know it's not the aircraft radio as no other airfield appears to have such sporadic feint transmissions.
Is it just due to the height being flown ? found the signals stronger from Blackpool ATC at a range of 10 miles north of the field than 10 miles east or south ""
Anyone else observed this ??
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Those locations are well within the designated area for Blackpool ATC and the surrounding land is substantially flat so reception should be fine. I suggest that you bell Blackpool ATC and tell them so that they can arrange for investigations.
HD thanks for the quick response , couldn't believe it , was visual at all times but at a distance with the airfield , but the strength of transmissions was variable.
Another aircraft also reported similar transmission issues on the frequency at the time , he said they were about strength 1 or 2 so I know it wasn't just me....
Cheers
Another aircraft also reported similar transmission issues on the frequency at the time , he said they were about strength 1 or 2 so I know it wasn't just me....
Cheers
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Some of the modern headsets in use in ATC don't pick up the sound very well, for example if the ATCO had their headset round their neck rather than on the head and the mic wasn't in the optimal place.
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Interesting. I wonder what type of microphones the controllers at Blackpool use? Headsets usually ensure that an optimum transmission is made every time but hand and stand mics can be problematical. Some users hold the mic too far away or turn their heads whilst speaking but keep the mic in the same place. Others sound as if they have the mics inside their mouths. Hope the problem is resolved but it does need reporting.
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I suspect if someone's playing 'the mighty Wurlitzer' in The Tower Ballroom just up the coast, it probably drains most of the town's electricity.
Seriously though, just to the east of EGNH is the St.Annes long range radar station and east of that is is the Inskip VLF station. I wonder if either of these radiate harmonics that interfere with the RTF?
Seriously though, just to the east of EGNH is the St.Annes long range radar station and east of that is is the Inskip VLF station. I wonder if either of these radiate harmonics that interfere with the RTF?
2 Sheds - yes probably thinking about it
what I should have said was " usually a superb basic service provided , given some constraints of apparent intermittent radio transmission issues "
When I compiled the sentence my thinking was obviously strength 1 and not strength 5 !
what I should have said was " usually a superb basic service provided , given some constraints of apparent intermittent radio transmission issues "
When I compiled the sentence my thinking was obviously strength 1 and not strength 5 !
Last edited by newaviator; 8th Aug 2014 at 11:21.
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2 sheds
Yes indeed, being UEE/LCE at an ATSOCAS unit, that caused a a little smile, follow-up answer even better!
Anyway...where were we:
"newaviator"...couple of questions....were you using the Tower freq which has a DOC 25 miles/4000 feet.....or the Approach freq which has a DOC 40 miles/10000 feet? On your next transit ask ATC if you can try an alternate freq to check the reception.
What type of aircraft? It is not impossible for a particular airframe/aerial combination in association with a set of unique three dimensional position characteristics to cause this effect.
An additional check....if your aircraft has two radios...try a comparison between the two.
Explanation of opening line....please excuse a couple of controllers having a little chuckle....no insult intended....a Basic Service is virtually nothing, although it obviously incorporates Alerting Service and may or may not contain items of relevant information such as generic traffic situation. Guidance to controllers is quite specific in that routine provision of a service in excess of that requested by the pilot may lead the pilot to expect the same level of service by default when in communication with other air traffic units that comply with type of service definition as published. So you see that your reference to the superb basic service flagged up a big question mark!!
Sincerely though.....let us know how you get on next time.....I'm from Blackpool so I always take an interest.
Anyway...where were we:
"newaviator"...couple of questions....were you using the Tower freq which has a DOC 25 miles/4000 feet.....or the Approach freq which has a DOC 40 miles/10000 feet? On your next transit ask ATC if you can try an alternate freq to check the reception.
What type of aircraft? It is not impossible for a particular airframe/aerial combination in association with a set of unique three dimensional position characteristics to cause this effect.
An additional check....if your aircraft has two radios...try a comparison between the two.
Explanation of opening line....please excuse a couple of controllers having a little chuckle....no insult intended....a Basic Service is virtually nothing, although it obviously incorporates Alerting Service and may or may not contain items of relevant information such as generic traffic situation. Guidance to controllers is quite specific in that routine provision of a service in excess of that requested by the pilot may lead the pilot to expect the same level of service by default when in communication with other air traffic units that comply with type of service definition as published. So you see that your reference to the superb basic service flagged up a big question mark!!
Sincerely though.....let us know how you get on next time.....I'm from Blackpool so I always take an interest.
055166k
With regard "basic service" as my username suggests I'm a newby PPL , the service I've received whilst transiting in the past has included much radio contact from the controllers at Blackpool, with plenty of position reports from me , requests from ATC for a position update from me ,and some good traffic info on a regular basis from the controllers about other aircraft in the immediate vicinity- which as a low hours pilot is very much appreciated indeed
Seems alot of folk use the M6/M55 junction as a reporting point............
First time I spoke to Blackpool was on 119.95 and was immediately asked to recall them on 118.40 as Radar/Approach wasn't being manned for some reason, 118.40 seemed to be handling everything.
Second instance (different date) and the most recent 119.95 was being used , and manned throughout my transit with them and had the more obvious fade out of transmission strength.
Aircraft is a fixed wing microlight with only 1 radio , no issues talking two way with Barton whilst approx 20+ miles distant on frequency change from Blackpool at or around Leyland area on the reverse of my route. Come to think about it , I passed and was in the vicinity of that big Wind Turbine at Garstang going North initially and then Southbound on my return and that could have been when the fade out was most apparent , although it could just be a coincidence ???
It just struck me that if they had a "blind spot" issue and it was possible to miss a transmission to me or vice versa it might be worth knowing about
With regard "basic service" as my username suggests I'm a newby PPL , the service I've received whilst transiting in the past has included much radio contact from the controllers at Blackpool, with plenty of position reports from me , requests from ATC for a position update from me ,and some good traffic info on a regular basis from the controllers about other aircraft in the immediate vicinity- which as a low hours pilot is very much appreciated indeed
Seems alot of folk use the M6/M55 junction as a reporting point............First time I spoke to Blackpool was on 119.95 and was immediately asked to recall them on 118.40 as Radar/Approach wasn't being manned for some reason, 118.40 seemed to be handling everything.
Second instance (different date) and the most recent 119.95 was being used , and manned throughout my transit with them and had the more obvious fade out of transmission strength.
Aircraft is a fixed wing microlight with only 1 radio , no issues talking two way with Barton whilst approx 20+ miles distant on frequency change from Blackpool at or around Leyland area on the reverse of my route. Come to think about it , I passed and was in the vicinity of that big Wind Turbine at Garstang going North initially and then Southbound on my return and that could have been when the fade out was most apparent , although it could just be a coincidence ???
It just struck me that if they had a "blind spot" issue and it was possible to miss a transmission to me or vice versa it might be worth knowing about
Last edited by newaviator; 8th Aug 2014 at 19:05. Reason: update
Most of my flying is weekend as its purely recreational , when Warton is normally shut . Spoke to them once for a Zone Transit mid week and had no issues with reception/transmission from them at all , I was inbound to Blackpool funnily enough at the time.
2 Sheds - yes probably thinking about it
what I should have said was " usually a superb basic service provided ,
what I should have said was " usually a superb basic service provided ,
I know that this is not the main point of your post, but my implication was "don't be under any illusion about the limited extent of a Basic Service".
2 s
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I'm just a Ham radio operator here, not a pilot, but I know radio. VHF radio is very particular about line-of-sight, and anything between the antennas can attenuate signals significantly, just as can anything metallic within the close proximity of the antenna. There is also a lot of attenuation unless the antennas are parallel in plane with each other, as much as 20dB, which could do what you describe when you're banked heavily. You might want to speak with others who use your exact type of A/C and see how their antennas are configured as well as if they experience similar issues. I'm guessing that it's mostly caused by your antenna placement and even a small movement will cure things or make them markedly worse- in which case you move it the other direction.
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I had this a couple of weeks ago on Blackpool Approach 119.950 whilst transiting to the East of the M6 Motorway- Some transmissions were very faint, I mentioned this and the next transmission was readability five. Later the same occurred - again mentioned and next transmission was fine.
This was when Approach was bandboxed with Tower on 118.400. I suspect that ATC was transmitting on the tower frequency, rather that 119.950 and as such the transmitter was less powerful ??
This was when Approach was bandboxed with Tower on 118.400. I suspect that ATC was transmitting on the tower frequency, rather that 119.950 and as such the transmitter was less powerful ??
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Squadgy
The first real clue...well done that man!!!!
Could be a classic case of controller headset mic being too far from the mouth...when you mention it...controller adjusts mic boom and all works fine.
Also some heavily used headsets/desk mic's get a little tired after many years' service and need replacing....nothing lasts forever; could be the plug, the lead, internal connections loose, desk socket etc.
Where I work there is no headset maintenance or replacement schedule, you just use the same one year in/ year out.....and if it breaks you just go to stores and get a refurbished or repaired replacement. Sometimes you get a good one back, other times you get a real turkey!
Doesn't explain the geographical positional problem referred to earlier though.
Could be a classic case of controller headset mic being too far from the mouth...when you mention it...controller adjusts mic boom and all works fine.
Also some heavily used headsets/desk mic's get a little tired after many years' service and need replacing....nothing lasts forever; could be the plug, the lead, internal connections loose, desk socket etc.
Where I work there is no headset maintenance or replacement schedule, you just use the same one year in/ year out.....and if it breaks you just go to stores and get a refurbished or repaired replacement. Sometimes you get a good one back, other times you get a real turkey!
Doesn't explain the geographical positional problem referred to earlier though.