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"Cleared direct to" in F/G airspace

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"Cleared direct to" in F/G airspace

Old 25th Jul 2014, 21:50
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: germany
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"Cleared direct to" in F/G airspace

Cleared direct Destination by one ATC unit in Hungary. G airspace from gnd up to 4000 ft and F airspace up to 9500ft, C further above. Descending through FL100, Radar control kicks you out at FL100 "Radar Service terminated", further descent in uncontrolled F/G airspace on info frequency (all flight under IFR).

Does the "direct Destination clearance" issued by Radar control above FL100 in airspace C still authorise you to cross Danger/Restricted Areas your flight track might cross in airspace F or G below FL100? Uncontrolled airspace; i.e, no Separation to other aircraft, is pretty clear. But does uncontrolled airspace also entail that you become responsible to avoid danger Areas etc. on your own?

Same scenario, being in uncontrolled F airspace (IFR flight) and you have to avoid the weather. Logically, you would not have to request a heading by the info service to avoid but only to inform them about your track Deviation?

Cheers

Cecco
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 14:02
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Depends on the provisions of the service being given - "info service" suggests you're on your own, though they'd be being a bit mean to not tell you if the Danger Area was active

A Hungarian controller would be the best person to answer this one...
sambatc is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2014, 18:41
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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A quick, general answer is: no. While in uncontrolled airspace, you're the one responsible for avoiding any prohibited areas. Any ATC clearance is valid only in controlled airspace, as other airspace is totally out of ATC scope.

Of course, there might be some deviations from standard ICAO procedures, so a word from Hungarian ATCO is welcomed.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 15:02
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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In theory you can send an aircraft smack into the side of a mountain just outside controlled airspace.

In practice, where I work at least, we don't do that, we usually clear aircrafts to leave CTA at a safe altitude, that will also remain safe for a while after they exited the CTA.

In the few occasions where pilots absolutely want to leave CTA at altitudes that aren't "safe" outside, we advise him of the possible bumpy ride, and make them understand it's their responsibility to not crash outside the CTA

There has been grim accidents from misunderstandings from pilots about who is responsible for terrainclearance amongst others, so here we like "nursing" a little to be on the safe side of things.

Same goes for danger and restricted areas, we don't send them directely towards them, and just "terminate radarcontrol", we'll as a minimum advice them, even vector them around if requested.
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 11:40
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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A quick, general answer is: no. While in uncontrolled airspace, you're the one responsible for avoiding any prohibited areas. Any ATC clearance is valid only in controlled airspace, as other airspace is totally out of ATC scope.
This is the case in Oz, too. Once a "control service" is terminated, the pilot resumes responsibility. Sometimes, if appropriate, we may issue a clearance to "leave and re-enter controlled airspace...".

If the aircraft is OCTA but still within radar coverage - and increasingly, ADSB coverage - we can provide an advisory service to assist pilots around Danger, Restricted and Prohibited areas, controlled airspace, VFR traffic, etc. It's up to the pilot to accept the advice - or not. They've always taken my advice.
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 12:44
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I conclude than that for any course change in airspace F/G (IFR), you do not request, you inform ATC; e.g xxx info, for you information, we are now on hdg 240, to avoid the wx.

Cecco
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