European Student ATCO licence
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European Student ATCO licence
Hello all,
It has been ages since I have posted on here. It's good (in a way) to be back on here. I was hoping for some good advice on what to do next.
I have recently failed to validate at NATS Swanwick. I got almost all the way through my training but failed at one of the last hurdles. I was part of the first group to leave the college with a European student licence. I have been in touch with Eurocontrol already and it seems that my age is against me applying with them. So, I guess my question is; What are my options now with regards to attempting to become an ATCO (Area) in the world? I am not tied down to the UK. I do have a family, but my wife is keen to explore the world so relocation is not an issue. ANY advice will be welcome. Just try not to jump on me from a negative side of things - the news of my failings is still a bit fresh.
Regards...
It has been ages since I have posted on here. It's good (in a way) to be back on here. I was hoping for some good advice on what to do next.
I have recently failed to validate at NATS Swanwick. I got almost all the way through my training but failed at one of the last hurdles. I was part of the first group to leave the college with a European student licence. I have been in touch with Eurocontrol already and it seems that my age is against me applying with them. So, I guess my question is; What are my options now with regards to attempting to become an ATCO (Area) in the world? I am not tied down to the UK. I do have a family, but my wife is keen to explore the world so relocation is not an issue. ANY advice will be welcome. Just try not to jump on me from a negative side of things - the news of my failings is still a bit fresh.
Regards...
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My first question is why did you fail to validate? I thought students, or any ATCO for that matter, who failed to validate would be given another shot on a different sector or a different unit. Did the people at Swanwick give you detailed reasons for your failure because that could be highly significant.
I guess you need MER to hold a full licence? It may be difficult finding an Area job as you failed at Swanwick but hope you find something. Presumably you do not have an Aerodrome or Approach Rating? It would be easier to find work with those, although I suspect that potential employers would want a full licence rather than a Student one.
I guess you need MER to hold a full licence? It may be difficult finding an Area job as you failed at Swanwick but hope you find something. Presumably you do not have an Aerodrome or Approach Rating? It would be easier to find work with those, although I suspect that potential employers would want a full licence rather than a Student one.
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HD those days are pretty much gone, many people who have failed both before and after reciving licenses have lately been given the kick. Some have been given a second chance, but far from everyone.
Also the area trainees today normally don't do aerodrome or approach training, you are streamed to one or the other and will normally not do the other disciplin(s).
I've been told that some years ago you were pretty much gauranteed a second chance if you failed to validate, also if you were an area controller you could be sent to an aerodrome instead and use those ratings (as I think everyone did aerodrome, then if nessecary approach, then if nessecary area, so area controllers would hold all ratings). Unfortunately those days now seem to be gone.
Also the area trainees today normally don't do aerodrome or approach training, you are streamed to one or the other and will normally not do the other disciplin(s).
I've been told that some years ago you were pretty much gauranteed a second chance if you failed to validate, also if you were an area controller you could be sent to an aerodrome instead and use those ratings (as I think everyone did aerodrome, then if nessecary approach, then if nessecary area, so area controllers would hold all ratings). Unfortunately those days now seem to be gone.
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Very sorry to hear your news, ATCNoob and also very sad to hear what Crazy Voyager has said.
It is odd that, having invested a lot of money on your selection and training, you and probably others were not given a second chance, either on other Swanwick sectors or up at Prestwick.
I worked with many LATCC/Swanwick 'failures', who arrived at our little centre looking worried. Nearly all went on to become top-class controllers, some are now examiners and/or managers.
We are emerging from a deep recession, aviation growth is beginning, and the 'late 1970s' recruitment//retirement bulge is about to kick in.
There is no 'one size fits all' in ATC training, (although one could argue that theoretically, there should be). Could I ask was 'area' your first choice, and if so, was Swanwick your first choice? Also, which sectors were you training on?
Whatever happens, very best of luck.
It is odd that, having invested a lot of money on your selection and training, you and probably others were not given a second chance, either on other Swanwick sectors or up at Prestwick.
I worked with many LATCC/Swanwick 'failures', who arrived at our little centre looking worried. Nearly all went on to become top-class controllers, some are now examiners and/or managers.
We are emerging from a deep recession, aviation growth is beginning, and the 'late 1970s' recruitment//retirement bulge is about to kick in.
There is no 'one size fits all' in ATC training, (although one could argue that theoretically, there should be). Could I ask was 'area' your first choice, and if so, was Swanwick your first choice? Also, which sectors were you training on?
Whatever happens, very best of luck.
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Thanks for your replies.
Unfortunately I don't know any other language.
"My first question is why did you fail to validate? I thought students, or any ATCO for that matter, who failed to validate would be given another shot on a different sector or a different unit. Did the people at Swanwick give you detailed reasons for your failure because that could be highly significant.
I guess you need MER to hold a full licence? It may be difficult finding an Area job as you failed at Swanwick but hope you find something. Presumably you do not have an Aerodrome or Approach Rating? It would be easier to find work with those, although I suspect that potential employers would want a full licence rather than a Student one."
I was not consistent enough. I showed that I could do the job, but there were too many small issues to overcome. I guess they were just a bit scared that on a bad day I wouldn't be good enough. I couldn't really nail down one particular reason. Safety wasn't an issue. Towards the end of my training I was told by numerous instructors that I am 95% there and just need 'polishing', which makes it that bit harder to swallow. It would be easier to deal with being told I was just not cut out for it...
I don't have any other ratings unfortunately. I know back in the day trainees covered all aspects, but not these days. We are streamlined for a particular discipline.
@chevvron - I have looked into the middle east, paricularly considering my sister lives out in Dubai, but there is more reasearch I could do around that. In the UAE they seem only to be taking on locals for ab initio training, and for all expats they want 2 - 3 years valid experience....
@Crazy Voyager - You are right. They don't automatically give you a second chance like they used to, which is a bit strange considering how much money they could actually save in the long term. I am basically left to apply for external roles or just work out my 3 month notice period....
@ ZOOKER - Thanks! I totally agree! It is a waste. I have been told that Prestwick aren't taking any more ab initios for another two years, and that SLAM is unlikely an option for me considering I am technically on a contract as a trainee and SLAM is a 3 year 'secondment' of sorts...it is extremely frustrating because I know that I could become a very proficient controller in the right place, ie: Scottish. At risk of sounding like I am making up excuses, there were a few mitigating factors which didn't help me while training. I'll leave it at that. Oh, yes, area was my first choice when applying and Swanwick was too. I was training on West End.
Unfortunately I don't know any other language.
"My first question is why did you fail to validate? I thought students, or any ATCO for that matter, who failed to validate would be given another shot on a different sector or a different unit. Did the people at Swanwick give you detailed reasons for your failure because that could be highly significant.
I guess you need MER to hold a full licence? It may be difficult finding an Area job as you failed at Swanwick but hope you find something. Presumably you do not have an Aerodrome or Approach Rating? It would be easier to find work with those, although I suspect that potential employers would want a full licence rather than a Student one."
I was not consistent enough. I showed that I could do the job, but there were too many small issues to overcome. I guess they were just a bit scared that on a bad day I wouldn't be good enough. I couldn't really nail down one particular reason. Safety wasn't an issue. Towards the end of my training I was told by numerous instructors that I am 95% there and just need 'polishing', which makes it that bit harder to swallow. It would be easier to deal with being told I was just not cut out for it...
I don't have any other ratings unfortunately. I know back in the day trainees covered all aspects, but not these days. We are streamlined for a particular discipline.
@chevvron - I have looked into the middle east, paricularly considering my sister lives out in Dubai, but there is more reasearch I could do around that. In the UAE they seem only to be taking on locals for ab initio training, and for all expats they want 2 - 3 years valid experience....
@Crazy Voyager - You are right. They don't automatically give you a second chance like they used to, which is a bit strange considering how much money they could actually save in the long term. I am basically left to apply for external roles or just work out my 3 month notice period....
@ ZOOKER - Thanks! I totally agree! It is a waste. I have been told that Prestwick aren't taking any more ab initios for another two years, and that SLAM is unlikely an option for me considering I am technically on a contract as a trainee and SLAM is a 3 year 'secondment' of sorts...it is extremely frustrating because I know that I could become a very proficient controller in the right place, ie: Scottish. At risk of sounding like I am making up excuses, there were a few mitigating factors which didn't help me while training. I'll leave it at that. Oh, yes, area was my first choice when applying and Swanwick was too. I was training on West End.
