What action do controllers take if an aircraft declares a pan?
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What action do controllers take if an aircraft declares a pan?
Firstly I'm not after any confidential or sensitive information, I'd just like to know what happens behind the scenes! I'm also aware that answers will vary depending on the exact situation.
So imagine a radar controller at a UK regional airport, providing an ATS to aircraft in the vicinity of the airport and surrounding airspace.
One of the aircraft on frequency suggests he has a problem, let's say a rough running engine and declares a pan.
On receiving the pan call, what is the controller's typical immediate reaction and subsequent actions?
Thanks,
Rich
So imagine a radar controller at a UK regional airport, providing an ATS to aircraft in the vicinity of the airport and surrounding airspace.
One of the aircraft on frequency suggests he has a problem, let's say a rough running engine and declares a pan.
On receiving the pan call, what is the controller's typical immediate reaction and subsequent actions?
Thanks,
Rich
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rich,
If it's just a 'PAN', you ask to see the EG book.
On the the other hand, if it's a 'MAYDAY', you usually sh*t your p*nts.
Been there, done that, and I'm actually wearing the Tee-shirt whilst typing these words.
If it's just a 'PAN', you ask to see the EG book.
On the the other hand, if it's a 'MAYDAY', you usually sh*t your p*nts.
Been there, done that, and I'm actually wearing the Tee-shirt whilst typing these words.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 13th Jun 2013 at 14:28.
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IŽd say "Roger" and call my supervisor, so he knows.
Nothing else until the pan tfc request anything. If the tfc is close to another sector IŽd report to that sector too.
Nothing else until the pan tfc request anything. If the tfc is close to another sector IŽd report to that sector too.
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rich_g85,
There is a distinction between the level of distress (i.e. is it PAN or MAYDAY?) which then dictates the level of priority ATC give the aircraft, and the actual problem that has been encountered.
You might have an inbound aircraft with a sick passenger, the level of distress going all the way from;
Likewise, a modern airliner may have suffered a slight hydraulic fault in one of its many hydraulic systems which in fact have absolutely no impact on the operation of the aircraft, therefore is given no level of distress by the crew, and yet ATC in the UK will probably respond with a 'Full Emergency' as that is what the ATC Manual states will be the response for any hydraulic failures. The semantics can cause confusion, as you can see the flight crew have not 'declared an emergency', yet ATC have initiated an 'emergency' response.
Levels of response such as Full Emergency, Local Standby, Aircraft Accident Imminent, Aircraft Ground Incident and so on will be defined in each airport's emergency orders in terms of what triggers each level and what exactly happens on the part of each agency.
There is a distinction between the level of distress (i.e. is it PAN or MAYDAY?) which then dictates the level of priority ATC give the aircraft, and the actual problem that has been encountered.
You might have an inbound aircraft with a sick passenger, the level of distress going all the way from;
- Nothing abnormal, just need an ambulance to meet the aircraft at the gate
- Medical Emergency
- PAN Medical Emergency
- MAYDAY Medical Emergency
Likewise, a modern airliner may have suffered a slight hydraulic fault in one of its many hydraulic systems which in fact have absolutely no impact on the operation of the aircraft, therefore is given no level of distress by the crew, and yet ATC in the UK will probably respond with a 'Full Emergency' as that is what the ATC Manual states will be the response for any hydraulic failures. The semantics can cause confusion, as you can see the flight crew have not 'declared an emergency', yet ATC have initiated an 'emergency' response.
Levels of response such as Full Emergency, Local Standby, Aircraft Accident Imminent, Aircraft Ground Incident and so on will be defined in each airport's emergency orders in terms of what triggers each level and what exactly happens on the part of each agency.
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rich
Hi, have a look at CAP 745 Aircraft Emergencies. You can google it. That will give you a general overview.....individual ATC units may have their own set of guidelines to suit a particular set of circumstances.....but CAP 745 might be what you're looking for.
Not sure about other countries, but New Zealand allows the pilot to nominate the desired response, in accordance with the aerodrome emergency plan. If the pilot does not nominate a response level, ATC will activate an appropriate level.
Reference AIP NZ ENR 1.15 7.2.
For example, a pilot may declare a MAYDAY and request local standby. Essentially the MAYDAY is the priority required from ATC, and the local standby is the response required from the aerodrome, rescue fire, and other aerodrome resources. This could be for example an engine failure, although the pilot reasonably anticipates a safe landing will be made.
When an emergency occurs in flight and adequate communications
exist, the pilot is responsible for advising the ATS unit accordingly and for
nominating the desired state of readiness of the aerodrome emergency
services. If adequate communications with the aircraft do not exist, the
ATS unit will assess the situation and bring the aerodrome emergency
services to the state of readiness considered appropriate.
exist, the pilot is responsible for advising the ATS unit accordingly and for
nominating the desired state of readiness of the aerodrome emergency
services. If adequate communications with the aircraft do not exist, the
ATS unit will assess the situation and bring the aerodrome emergency
services to the state of readiness considered appropriate.
For example, a pilot may declare a MAYDAY and request local standby. Essentially the MAYDAY is the priority required from ATC, and the local standby is the response required from the aerodrome, rescue fire, and other aerodrome resources. This could be for example an engine failure, although the pilot reasonably anticipates a safe landing will be made.
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Thanks all for taking the time to reply. Very enlightening and interesting to read. I also looked through CAP745.
One other question (and I think I know the answer already) - is the MATS Part 2 for an airfield a physical book/binder at the unit, or is it available somewhere online?
One other question (and I think I know the answer already) - is the MATS Part 2 for an airfield a physical book/binder at the unit, or is it available somewhere online?
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It is a physical book. I doubt you would find any available outside of the distribution lists as they often contain both commercially sensitive and security related information.
Last edited by Gonzo; 14th Jun 2013 at 14:01.
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Deal with it.
would be the honest answer. You can never over react to these things either. Sometimes you could make your own judgement. It appears to me that some pilots get nervous about admitting they have a problem. Eg, someone with a rough running engine, would just say "I have a rough running engine" instead of actually declaring a pan.
would be the honest answer. You can never over react to these things either. Sometimes you could make your own judgement. It appears to me that some pilots get nervous about admitting they have a problem. Eg, someone with a rough running engine, would just say "I have a rough running engine" instead of actually declaring a pan.
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As ATCO91 said
Other pilots would declare a MAYDAY in this situation.
As a FISO I don't consider the priority set by the pilot. I consider the stated problem and react accordingly.
Also I consider how fast a response is needed. If an aircraft is downwind in the circuit and declares a "problem" I may use the crash alarm to ensure a rapid response by the RFFS. If the pilot calls on the radio and states that he estimates being at the airfield in 10 minutes then I would take a less dramatic approach to alerting the RFFS.
someone with a rough running engine, would just say "I have a rough running engine" instead of actually declaring a pan.
As a FISO I don't consider the priority set by the pilot. I consider the stated problem and react accordingly.
Also I consider how fast a response is needed. If an aircraft is downwind in the circuit and declares a "problem" I may use the crash alarm to ensure a rapid response by the RFFS. If the pilot calls on the radio and states that he estimates being at the airfield in 10 minutes then I would take a less dramatic approach to alerting the RFFS.
Last edited by Another_CFI; 15th Jun 2013 at 21:32.
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I completely agree, it is a MAYDAY situation. I was just pointing out that, in my experience, its up to the controller to "read between the lines" and decide whether or not he/she hits the crash alarm.
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As a general comment whilst discussing emergency actions.
I am both a airport worker and a volunteer emergency services worker.
Despite a 3 week training course (for us) in driving on Blue Lights it is still one of the most dangerous things we do. Many of my colleagues have been seriously injured or even died as a result of collisions whilst driving on blue light runs.
Why do I say this - the more warning that we have, the 'easier' we can take it and the safer our journey will be. Ideally not needing to use 'Blues and Twos' at all.
Please dont do what what of our controllers did - they had nearly 2 hours warning of an aircraft incident inbound and gave RFFS the estimated time but did not sound the Crash Alarm and alert the outside services until the aircraft was descending through FL100.
The aircraft was already on the ground when Local Authority Fire and Ambulance arrived - they had done a 10-15 minute blue light run at massively increased risk to them and other road users for nothing. If they had known sooner that they could 'attend by appointment' then we would have had the full PDA staffing levels met and even been able to have an incident briefing.
I am both a airport worker and a volunteer emergency services worker.
Despite a 3 week training course (for us) in driving on Blue Lights it is still one of the most dangerous things we do. Many of my colleagues have been seriously injured or even died as a result of collisions whilst driving on blue light runs.
Why do I say this - the more warning that we have, the 'easier' we can take it and the safer our journey will be. Ideally not needing to use 'Blues and Twos' at all.
Please dont do what what of our controllers did - they had nearly 2 hours warning of an aircraft incident inbound and gave RFFS the estimated time but did not sound the Crash Alarm and alert the outside services until the aircraft was descending through FL100.
The aircraft was already on the ground when Local Authority Fire and Ambulance arrived - they had done a 10-15 minute blue light run at massively increased risk to them and other road users for nothing. If they had known sooner that they could 'attend by appointment' then we would have had the full PDA staffing levels met and even been able to have an incident briefing.
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Burnie5204
Why would the controller give you 2 hrs notice of something that may or may not happen?
You guys are supposed to drive withinin the limit of the law and if you drive outside said limit you are accountable for your actions!
Similarly the controller is accountable and it is perfectly reasonable to wait until, in this instance, the aircraft is descending through FL100.
A PAN PAN PAN call is given to alert the controller that something is amiss but not something that is immediately life threatening. On receipt of such a call the controller keeps a watchful eye (and Ear) on such flight but does not go into high distress/hysteria mode until so, or if, required.
You, on the other hand, overreact and go into 'Blues & Twos' when not necessary thus endangering life and limb of the ordinary public thru' watching and emulating too many TV dramas.
Cheers
Why would the controller give you 2 hrs notice of something that may or may not happen?
You guys are supposed to drive withinin the limit of the law and if you drive outside said limit you are accountable for your actions!
Similarly the controller is accountable and it is perfectly reasonable to wait until, in this instance, the aircraft is descending through FL100.
A PAN PAN PAN call is given to alert the controller that something is amiss but not something that is immediately life threatening. On receipt of such a call the controller keeps a watchful eye (and Ear) on such flight but does not go into high distress/hysteria mode until so, or if, required.
You, on the other hand, overreact and go into 'Blues & Twos' when not necessary thus endangering life and limb of the ordinary public thru' watching and emulating too many TV dramas.
Cheers
Last edited by Vercingetorix; 17th Jun 2013 at 10:45.