NAT Procedures & ICAO FPL

[jackharpenden]

Hello,

Here is a scenario:
BAW183 (Heathrow to JFK) is cruising at FL340 in Shannon's airspace. The crew request and receive clearance for an oceanic crossing at FL370 with an entry at DOGAL. When switching back to domestic and approaching DOGAL will the crew be given clearance by Shannon to climb to FL370 before DOGAL ready for the crossing? Or must the crew request this climb from Shannon? Or do the crew make this climb without clearance in the period after being released from Shannon but before reaching DOGAL?

Secondly, on a related subject take this flightplan:
N0464F360 CPT UL9 KENET UN14 PEMOB UN30 BANBA DCT LIMRI/M083F380 DCT 52N020W 52N030W 52N040W 51N050W DCT DENDU DCT CYMON/N0471F380 DCT EBONY DCT AJJAY OOSHN2

I was previously led to believe that altitude changes listed in a flightplan are where the crew have planned to begin the climb/desent (ICAO Doc 8168 PANS OPS and ICAO doc 4444 PANS ATM). But, if this were true then the plan above would show a climb from FL360 to 380 be initiated in oceanic airspace (at LIMRI), which to me would seem unlikely. Could anyone please clarify this?

Many thanks,
Jack

P.S. Apologies if this has been answered before, in searching I had difficulty finding anything to answer my questions.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

HI snowy Harpenden

Shannon domestic will usually ask if the aircraft is ready and able for the climb to the Crossing cleared level.
Thus all the aircraft are filtered and funneled flow to the entry points in a logical and safe sequence as required by FL, Mno, Track and time.

Re the filed plan showing step climb requirements, this flight plan does not over-ride the ATC clearance which will NEVER include a step climb.
Should the aircraft require the climb for performance / burn / avoidance purposes, then a request via CPDLC or HF is made, ATC look at the big picture, and advise accordingly.

Hope this answers the questions.

glf

[divingduck]

jackharpenden

I haven't worked in EINN for a couple of years, but Ill give this a go.

Firstly, the clearance that you have organised from Shanwick for crossing the NAT is an Oceanic clearance (Which Shanwick controls)....it is NOT a clearance for Shannon ATC airspace.
This clearance (and any amendments) will be electronically sent by the Shanwick controller to the Shannon controller.
He/she will then start planning to have you at the level, at the cleared Mach number, at the NAT entry point, within 2 minutes of the time that you are cleared to enter.
You should NEVER begin a climb/descent without a clearance from the controller that is controlling the airspace that you are currently in.

Regarding the flight planned climb...why wouldn't an aircraft request a climb in the Oceanic airspace?...its just like any other airspace, the level will be either available, or not.
Having said that, looking at that plan, it looks like that is his requested entry level and Mach number into the NAT.

cheers

[rab-k]

Originally Posted by Gulfstreamaviator

the ATC clearance which will NEVER include a step climb

Once upon a time they might have done. A "conditional" or "automatic", climb was a technique used until fairly recently at Shanwick; a step climb being included as part of the Oceanic clearance.

Shanwick stopped using this technique however as there were too many instances where confusion resulted in crews commencing step climbs at inappropriate points/times - resulting in a blizzard of paperwork for all concerned...

I believe that New York Oceanic may still use this procedure.