Should I complain about ATC
I'd rather not play guess the airfield!
2 s
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you experience a situation as a pilot that has safety implications then please file a report with the caa. But think of it this way your not complaining about an ats provider but reporting a situation so that lessons can be learned (on both sides). If you get the opportunity then tell other parties involved that you intend to file a report to allow them to fill one also so that the incident can be fully investigated.
As atc, we fill them in whenever we have safety concerns, it's not personal, it's about working together to provide safe ats.
ST
As atc, we fill them in whenever we have safety concerns, it's not personal, it's about working together to provide safe ats.
ST
your (sic) not complaining about an ats provider but reporting a situation so that lessons can be learned (on both sides).
2 s
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: behind the fruit
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CEO gets a speeding ticket, gets to work, yells at VP.
VP yells at secretary. Secretary yells at receptionist.
Receptionist gets home and yells at son, sends him to bed without dinner.
Son sees cat on the way to bed, kicks cat.
Probably would have been better if CEO went to receptionists house and kicked cat himself... but...
VP yells at secretary. Secretary yells at receptionist.
Receptionist gets home and yells at son, sends him to bed without dinner.
Son sees cat on the way to bed, kicks cat.
Probably would have been better if CEO went to receptionists house and kicked cat himself... but...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Jockland
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a CDO. Those who have to use my service will know what I am and where I am. I would never dream of giving aircrew a hard time. English is often their second or third etc. language . I struggle at the best of times with English. If a mistake is made on readback, I will make sure it is corrected without any verbal hassle. I want the cockpit crew to leave my freq happy and relaxed in the understanding of their clearance. If They call back to confirm again, I will always thank Them for doing the right thing. A happy pilot,going en-route, makes me feel I'm doing my job. Reading back over this reply makes Me sound a bit An-l. So feel free to shoot me down until YOU give Me a call. Regards EGGX.
It could hardly be Fairoaks as there is no runway 25 there and in any case, although there are several 'Victor Meldrews' who FISO there, they do not do that sort of thing. In the 25L/25R debate I assume you are referring to circuit direction as opposed to multiple runways, in which case Blackbushe has a runway 25 with circuits to the south; work it out for yourself!!
Last edited by chevvron; 19th Dec 2012 at 17:16.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the wireless...
Posts: 1,901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Heath Row
So two questions, do the CAA regulate this service ?
And should I bother to complain to the airfield and or the CAA?
And should I bother to complain to the airfield and or the CAA?
If you wish to make a complaint contact the CAA Inspector ATS 01293 573352.
The airfield itself might not take any action.
The FISO in question, wherever he/she is, is letting the side down and should be taken to the cleaners, if not, a shrink.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Somerset
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plazbot - what crap. I said I'd happily take a rebuke, but lets not forget: 1. The mindset of the pilot has a direct correlation to safety, and, 2. I'm paying for that service.
Would expect a checkout assistant to speak to you like that in fortnum, or where ever you shop? Or how about your lawyer?
If I spoke to a client like that, I'd be disbarred, no two ways about it.
So yes, I thought I'd gauge reaction and then consider whether to complain. Given the protective nature of some ATS operators it appears to me that complaining is absolutely the right thing to do.
Would expect a checkout assistant to speak to you like that in fortnum, or where ever you shop? Or how about your lawyer?
If I spoke to a client like that, I'd be disbarred, no two ways about it.
So yes, I thought I'd gauge reaction and then consider whether to complain. Given the protective nature of some ATS operators it appears to me that complaining is absolutely the right thing to do.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Somewhere in Southern England
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heath Row,
In answer to your questions:-
1) Do the CAA regulate this service ?
Yes. All Flight Informations Service Officers (FISOs) are licensed by the CAA and are subject to competency checks every two years. Additionally the Air Navigation Service Provider is subject to an annual audit by the CAA.
2) Should I bother to complain to the airfield and or the CAA?
In the first instance I would suggest that a face-to-face discussion (not over the radio) with the FISO may resolve the situation. If not then a complaint to the airfield would be appropriate. If neither of these work then it would be appropriate to raise a Mandatory Occurrence Report (MOR) which is sent to the CAA. The text book answer would be that you should raise an MOR but the first two steps may be more pragmatic and produce better results.
It is worth remembering that the recollection of the two parties involved, yourself and the FISO, may be different. In the past I was involved in the management of an Air Traffic Control Unit, where there is a mandatory requirement that all radio transmissions are recorded; unlike a FISO unit where recording is only recommended. On one occasion I received a complaint from a pilot about an Air Traffic Control Officer (ATCO) and also a complaint from the ATCO about the pilot. Both reports were clear, lucid, unambiguous but varied in vital details. A replay of the recordings showed that both reports were mainly correct but that each report had vital errors and omissions which showed that neither party was either entirely guilty or entirely blame free.
In answer to your questions:-
1) Do the CAA regulate this service ?
Yes. All Flight Informations Service Officers (FISOs) are licensed by the CAA and are subject to competency checks every two years. Additionally the Air Navigation Service Provider is subject to an annual audit by the CAA.
2) Should I bother to complain to the airfield and or the CAA?
In the first instance I would suggest that a face-to-face discussion (not over the radio) with the FISO may resolve the situation. If not then a complaint to the airfield would be appropriate. If neither of these work then it would be appropriate to raise a Mandatory Occurrence Report (MOR) which is sent to the CAA. The text book answer would be that you should raise an MOR but the first two steps may be more pragmatic and produce better results.
It is worth remembering that the recollection of the two parties involved, yourself and the FISO, may be different. In the past I was involved in the management of an Air Traffic Control Unit, where there is a mandatory requirement that all radio transmissions are recorded; unlike a FISO unit where recording is only recommended. On one occasion I received a complaint from a pilot about an Air Traffic Control Officer (ATCO) and also a complaint from the ATCO about the pilot. Both reports were clear, lucid, unambiguous but varied in vital details. A replay of the recordings showed that both reports were mainly correct but that each report had vital errors and omissions which showed that neither party was either entirely guilty or entirely blame free.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milano
Age: 53
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not give the tower a ring and talk about it?
).
Last edited by Dg800; 20th Dec 2012 at 10:15.
Agree entirely with Dg800.
Heath Row - any chance of correcting the thread title on the listing under "ATC Issues"? Come to think of it, it doesn't qualify!
2 s
Heath Row - any chance of correcting the thread title on the listing under "ATC Issues"? Come to think of it, it doesn't qualify!
2 s
Last edited by 2 sheds; 20th Dec 2012 at 11:39.
An exchange on RTF of this nature, and you don't know who is listening, only brings the FISO profession into disrepute, a simple correction to the readback would have been perfectly sufficient.
I'm always afraid that a 'rebuke' of this nature, especially to someone about to depart (no matter how many hours they have) might 'prey' on their mind causing them to 'miss out' a vital action before takeoff so I would either save it until they return, or if not returning, ask them to phone after they land.
Heath Row: I would suggest you contact the senior FISO at your airfield (if there is one) and ask to visit and observe what goes on in the tower. It's probably not a lot of good complaining to the airport authority as often they have little knowledge of ATS procedures, and would tend to refer it to the FISOs anyway.
I'm always afraid that a 'rebuke' of this nature, especially to someone about to depart (no matter how many hours they have) might 'prey' on their mind causing them to 'miss out' a vital action before takeoff so I would either save it until they return, or if not returning, ask them to phone after they land.
Heath Row: I would suggest you contact the senior FISO at your airfield (if there is one) and ask to visit and observe what goes on in the tower. It's probably not a lot of good complaining to the airport authority as often they have little knowledge of ATS procedures, and would tend to refer it to the FISOs anyway.
