Flight Int Adverts "ferroNATS"
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Perhaps Feral Gnats should give up some of their pie to saerco; after all saerco's first newbie ATCO, recruited straight off the street , has recently endorsed in the Canaries and is now doing a good job "Home Alone".
Adiós!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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one stupid question,
they desperately looking for people,but they withdrawn advert from flightglobal and from nats web site.
Are they looking for atcos or not?
just as matter of fact,advert vanished a day after minister ^(Sra Pastor) meet spanish atcos....
no further comment...
they desperately looking for people,but they withdrawn advert from flightglobal and from nats web site.
Are they looking for atcos or not?
just as matter of fact,advert vanished a day after minister ^(Sra Pastor) meet spanish atcos....
no further comment...
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I hope that the mentioned "SAERCO guy" doesn´t refer to one of the pair caugh cheating at the theory exam for the Fuerteventura TWR validation:
BD
Last edited by BurglarsDog; 1st Nov 2012 at 08:43.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Does anyone have further informations on what's happening down there.
There's still some advertisement on Nats website but not that much details.
Would be interested in getting there..
There's still some advertisement on Nats website but not that much details.
Would be interested in getting there..
Join Date: Aug 2010
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I can't say that I have full insight in what is happening but I'll try to share what I know.
From the 10 towers FerroNats got, several have been already transfered. This is a huge delay to the initial planning where it was supposed that all 10 would have been transferred prior to previous summer.
The professional level of the new atcos has been significantly lower that the previous trainees (you thought it couldn't get worse in Spain? We have a saying here: others will come after me that will make me look good) which in combination with several legal and/or organization mishaps are root causes for these delays.
The two most important airports in the pack in terms of traffic (LEVC and LEAL) have not been transfered yet although the schedule is to have that before summer. Considering the accuracy of these predictions so far I'd take that estimate with a grain of salt.
In any case it seems that FerroNats has not enough staff as they have been forced to keep some trainees failed in training at a specific tower and they have just moved them to a different one to start training there agian. Unlikely scenario if they had surplus of them...
The contract was awarded for 5 years with a possible extension of one more. Obviously this being a country with the same political integrity as Greece or Italy, all bets are off on what might happen.
One of the few solid facts are the economic and working conditions offered by FerroNats... they have been posted before both in this thread and on other ones about spanish ATC but if you need them, feel free to ask.
Bottom line: You can probably get a job at FerroNats but I would advise to check carefully what you are getting into. Feel free to ask, I work for Aena but I can provide link to official sources so you can make your own opinion.
From the 10 towers FerroNats got, several have been already transfered. This is a huge delay to the initial planning where it was supposed that all 10 would have been transferred prior to previous summer.
The professional level of the new atcos has been significantly lower that the previous trainees (you thought it couldn't get worse in Spain? We have a saying here: others will come after me that will make me look good) which in combination with several legal and/or organization mishaps are root causes for these delays.
The two most important airports in the pack in terms of traffic (LEVC and LEAL) have not been transfered yet although the schedule is to have that before summer. Considering the accuracy of these predictions so far I'd take that estimate with a grain of salt.
In any case it seems that FerroNats has not enough staff as they have been forced to keep some trainees failed in training at a specific tower and they have just moved them to a different one to start training there agian. Unlikely scenario if they had surplus of them...
The contract was awarded for 5 years with a possible extension of one more. Obviously this being a country with the same political integrity as Greece or Italy, all bets are off on what might happen.
One of the few solid facts are the economic and working conditions offered by FerroNats... they have been posted before both in this thread and on other ones about spanish ATC but if you need them, feel free to ask.
Bottom line: You can probably get a job at FerroNats but I would advise to check carefully what you are getting into. Feel free to ask, I work for Aena but I can provide link to official sources so you can make your own opinion.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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As far as I heared the training for this crap is self sponsored. Somewhat 45k Euros for the tower rating. And it seems that there are not enough jobs for all the students. Can anybody here comfim this? Skyguide recently recruited a young lady who did the training down there just to be told afterwards she won't get a job in spain. She has to do full training in switzerland again. Here we go. P2C, pay to control. What's next?
Last edited by bavarian-buddy; 5th Apr 2013 at 21:46.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Confirmed. Ab initio training is now ran by the private sector, and yes, it costs around 45k euros for the visual tower rating.
And yes, there are not enough jobs for everybody.
Just crazy.
And yes, there are not enough jobs for everybody.
Just crazy.
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Hard to believe
I couldn't believe (or should I better say, it is really hard to believe) that there are some fing idiots out there that will pay to work.
The package offered is a bad joke.
ing idiots out there that will pay to work.The package offered is a bad joke.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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For those interested, here is the link to the school where all spanish atcos were trained prior to 2010. It is still the most important but not the only one.
Servicios y Estudios para la Navegación Aérea y la Seguridad Aeronáutica S.A.
Text is in spanish but numbers should speak for themselves.
Servicios y Estudios para la Navegación Aérea y la Seguridad Aeronáutica S.A.
Text is in spanish but numbers should speak for themselves.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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stand by,
if I catch correctly,person who wants to be an ATCO employed by AENA must pay for Ab initio ( 45000 for twr or 50+ for acc) ?
You are joking ,aren't you?
All training costs are already included in cost base. It is not company money, it is money paid by our customers.
If you don't believe me check with adequate EC regulation 549/550/551.
And everyone must obey to these rules if they belong to:
European Union,
is member of SES projects( FABs or so...)
and/or subject to bilateral/multilateral state agreements.
evrything else is just criminal.
if I catch correctly,person who wants to be an ATCO employed by AENA must pay for Ab initio ( 45000 for twr or 50+ for acc) ?
You are joking ,aren't you?
All training costs are already included in cost base. It is not company money, it is money paid by our customers.
If you don't believe me check with adequate EC regulation 549/550/551.
And everyone must obey to these rules if they belong to:
European Union,
is member of SES projects( FABs or so...)
and/or subject to bilateral/multilateral state agreements.
evrything else is just criminal.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Hmmm... haven't read those regulations (I know perhaps I should but currently I have enough spanish legislation to read) but let me see if I can clarify a bit.
Senasa (the only atco formation centre in spain) had untill 2010 an agreement with Aena (the only ANSP in spain) to train atco students with no cost to them and after completion they would be offered a position at the ANSP. Similar to NATS or other serious providers if I'm not mistaken.
After 2010 several training centers opened, for example the UCJC who trained a few atco students (I'm not sure how many... between 50 and 100 I believe) in UK who then found out that their licence was not valid in spain...
Aena has not hired a single atco since march 2010... all those willing to pay these fees at Senasa (or the other training centres) have mostly wasted their money. Just a very limited amount of chosen ones have made it to the other ANSP now working in spain, FerroNats (there is another one, Saerco (no, not Serco)) working in the Canary Islands). Their working conditions have already been mentioned in this thread.
So FerroNats just recruited whatever was available, be that atcos with foreign licence, military personell, recicled AFISOs (you don't want to know about these... trust me) or those poor sods who just paid 50k euros
Senasa (the only atco formation centre in spain) had untill 2010 an agreement with Aena (the only ANSP in spain) to train atco students with no cost to them and after completion they would be offered a position at the ANSP. Similar to NATS or other serious providers if I'm not mistaken.
After 2010 several training centers opened, for example the UCJC who trained a few atco students (I'm not sure how many... between 50 and 100 I believe) in UK who then found out that their licence was not valid in spain...
Aena has not hired a single atco since march 2010... all those willing to pay these fees at Senasa (or the other training centres) have mostly wasted their money. Just a very limited amount of chosen ones have made it to the other ANSP now working in spain, FerroNats (there is another one, Saerco (no, not Serco)) working in the Canary Islands). Their working conditions have already been mentioned in this thread.
So FerroNats just recruited whatever was available, be that atcos with foreign licence, military personell, recicled AFISOs (you don't want to know about these... trust me) or those poor sods who just paid 50k euros
Oi Daermon, don't tar all AFISOs with the same brush! The UK and Norway both have some very capable AFISOs. I did 34 years as an ATCO and having retired just over 4 years ago, I am a part time (2 days per week) AFISO. I know of several other retired ATCOs who are also AFISOs.
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What Daermon ATC means is they are spanish way AFISOS. Really we (spanish ATC) don´t have any problem wiht other ATCs or Afisos or whatever, where we are worried is about the way our authority is certifying licenses, procedures, training courses.... that is the problem.
Belive me, I´m now a OJTI ( forced by the law) and I´m experience how poor are the training courses and how light where the selection of newbies. OJT where I work was suposed to last 1.5 month for the Saerco ATCs and now is over 3 months for every group, no matter of experienced or new. But don´t worry, what you will hear from AENA, SAERCO, FERRONATS and our beloved AESA is that the transition is acording to the dates, that the security is at the maximun standard and that everything is even better than planned. ALL BULL****.
Belive me, I´m now a OJTI ( forced by the law) and I´m experience how poor are the training courses and how light where the selection of newbies. OJT where I work was suposed to last 1.5 month for the Saerco ATCs and now is over 3 months for every group, no matter of experienced or new. But don´t worry, what you will hear from AENA, SAERCO, FERRONATS and our beloved AESA is that the transition is acording to the dates, that the security is at the maximun standard and that everything is even better than planned. ALL BULL****.
Last edited by dav_vader; 17th Apr 2013 at 14:14. Reason: Typo
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Reprimand acknowledged and accepted. 
Please accept my apologies, as dav vader mentions I was refering to the way the AFIS issue was handled in Spain.
Their selection process was nonexistent (they were a political decission so they were needed with urgency... selected were some within Aena or Senasa who had some "relationship to aviation"... and very good connections). After several failures in terms of implementation (GCHI was demoted to AFIS but after many local protests they got back to ATC control... who where the same guys with a blitz upgrade training
)
After that no further AFIS training has been done (to my knowledge).
Oh, and back again to the FerroNats topic, I've heard (unconfirmed, as usual) that those who have failed their local unit endorsement have NOT been moved to another tower to start again their training there but have been fired instead. Guess FerroNats was started to get some concerns about the reported abismal level of their employees and is trying to at least weed out the worse
Please accept my apologies, as dav vader mentions I was refering to the way the AFIS issue was handled in Spain.
Their selection process was nonexistent (they were a political decission so they were needed with urgency... selected were some within Aena or Senasa who had some "relationship to aviation"... and very good connections). After several failures in terms of implementation (GCHI was demoted to AFIS but after many local protests they got back to ATC control... who where the same guys with a blitz upgrade training
)After that no further AFIS training has been done (to my knowledge).
Oh, and back again to the FerroNats topic, I've heard (unconfirmed, as usual) that those who have failed their local unit endorsement have NOT been moved to another tower to start again their training there but have been fired instead. Guess FerroNats was started to get some concerns about the reported abismal level of their employees and is trying to at least weed out the worse
