Does "radar contact" require acknowledgement?

[bfisk]

Hello all,

As the title implies I am wondering if I am required to read back, acknowledge or even reply to when the controller tells me that he has "radar contact" or that I am "identified". I am referring to the situation where you would expect to get this, i.e. on first contact after departure or sometimes when transferred to another sector.

I haven't been doing this for my about 3000 hours now, and didn't really think much about it. Then I flew with one guy who insisted this was procedure, as it apparently constitutes a clearance to commence reduced reporting procedures. We tried to look it up in our route manual but couldn't find a definite answer.

So, which one is it, and where does it say?

[TWR]

No, it doesn't.

[RustyNail]

I've been controlling for 26 years all around the world and....

On initial contact if I tell an A/C that they are "Identified" I dont expect an acknowlegement although they will sometimes say "ABC, Roger".

If I say "no radar contact" then I expect normal position reporting from the pilot until they become "Identified".

If I lose a target and advise "Radar services terminated" then I would expect some acknowlegement, "ABC, Roger", whatever, indicating that from that point onwards the pilots would resume position reporting.

Hope that helps, your operator may have their own rules, as may your local ATC unit.

[PENKO]

Interesting question!
CAP 413 states that you have to read back the type of radar service. Now that's a purely UK situation as far as I know.

'Radar contact' tells me that I am under positive radar control which is very important information. So the least I can do is acknowledge it with a 'roger'.

[Not Long Now]

Surely radar contact implies only that, you have been 'seen', and nothing to do with the service being provided, so not necessarily positive radar control.

[Glamdring]

"Radar Contact" or "identified" implies no service therefore no readback required.

"Basic Service", "Traffic Service", "Deconfliction Service", "Radar Control Service" etc. all require a readback.

"Radar Contact" should in no way tell you that you are under positive control. Time to re-read the books for some methinks

[PENKO]

True, but that's the vaguery I imply. There are no controllers outside of the UK that will routinely say what level of control they provide. They will only tell me 'radar contact'.

[TWR]

That's because we keep it simple.
If you know the airspace classification, you know the service you'll get.

No need to make things more complicated...

[PENKO]

So if the controller in Brussels says 'radar contact', then I know I'm under radar control TWR? I ask because your colleagues above imply that that is not necessarily the case!

[Glamdring]

So outside the UK, what would a controller say if he had you identified on the radar but was unable to provide a radar service due to workload?

[1Charlie]

Probably "ABC identfied remain clear of controlled airspace due traffic" then expect clearance at...Or something similar

[Trim Stab]

So outside the UK, what would a controller say if he had you identified on the radar but was unable to provide a radar service due to workload?

I have never had such a situation arise. Either you are under radar coverage or not, in my experience anyway.

[TWR]

I didn't say "Radar contact" means you are under positive radar control.
Those things shouldn't get mixed up. "Radar contact" means your position has been
identified on a radar scope. It doesn't mean you are under radar control.

I'm saying that, outside the UK, you know which service to expect because you know which class of airspace you are in.

e.g. when flying VFR in G, there is no separation provided but avoidance advice is available on request. Previous radar identification will make it simple for us to anticipate on such situations. Thank you mode S...

In class C you'll be separated from IFR traffic, flight info on other VFR traffic, etc...etc...

[TWR]

So outside the UK, what would a controller say if he had you identified on the radar but was unable to provide a radar service due to workload?

This is indeed a tricky situation. Again, in class G you do your own separation but most ATCOs I know (when providing FIS) will give you traffic info when you get too close to each other, without you asking for it. But there is always the possibility of frequency overload or simply ACFT escaping our gaze...