ATC speed after approach clearance
Join Date: Oct 2000
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<<With reduced separation on approach, it seems this needs to be sorted out...good question.>>
If tight spacing is employed it must be radar controlled. In such situations you fly the speeds given by the radar controller. If you are unable to accept them you must give warning in advance of final approach. I worked as a Heathrow Radar controller for 31 years and I could count on one hand the number of times a pilot told me he couldn't fly the speed I had given, usually due a weight problem.
If tight spacing is employed it must be radar controlled. In such situations you fly the speeds given by the radar controller. If you are unable to accept them you must give warning in advance of final approach. I worked as a Heathrow Radar controller for 31 years and I could count on one hand the number of times a pilot told me he couldn't fly the speed I had given, usually due a weight problem.
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Watching Heathrow aircraft approach queues, they do an amazing job, its nerve wracking just to watch, let alone what it takes to keep everyone lined up.
Some of the recat models, and matrix models use a combination of radar sep and nm for the heavies, especially with pair-wise models. One of these days, they will get ATC involved in some of the crazy scenarios they have dreamed up, ie 64x64 matrix?!?!
Some of the recat models, and matrix models use a combination of radar sep and nm for the heavies, especially with pair-wise models. One of these days, they will get ATC involved in some of the crazy scenarios they have dreamed up, ie 64x64 matrix?!?!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Isnt the aircraft still bound by their respective CAT speed?
[737-700/800]
The airplane is classified as a Medium Type Category.
The airplane is certified as Approach Category "C".
The airplane is classified as a Medium Type Category.
The airplane is certified as Approach Category "C".
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Eurocontrol have found it necessary to issue the following with regards to speed control vs range to touchdown.
SKYbrary - Unstabilised Approach: Inappropriate ATC Speed Instructions
That must mean that, ATCOs not understanding basic aircraft performance, is a common and danger triggering fact.
The problem could be that the ATC-SIM will accept almost any speeds given at any point. I have seen trainees use complete rubbish speeds fresh out of the college.
SKYbrary - Unstabilised Approach: Inappropriate ATC Speed Instructions
That must mean that, ATCOs not understanding basic aircraft performance, is a common and danger triggering fact.
The problem could be that the ATC-SIM will accept almost any speeds given at any point. I have seen trainees use complete rubbish speeds fresh out of the college.
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That link won't open for me. However, when I had trainees on Tower, Approach and Approach Radar it was an integral part of their training that they gained an appreciation of the performance characteristics of the types of aircraft they were likely to encounter. It was the same with all OJTI's I worked with, as well as when I was a trainee myself all those years ago. If they didn't have that appreciation, they didn't validate.
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Well.......
Canada ATC Manual of Operations:
554.8 Advise an aircraft to resume normal speed when application of a speed adjustment is no longer necessary, except when the aircraft has been cleared for an approach (N)
(N) Note 2:
An approach clearance supersedes a speed adjustment request, and aircraft are expected to make their own speed adjustments to complete the approach. If you require aircraft to adjust speed while on approach, restate the request.
554.8 Advise an aircraft to resume normal speed when application of a speed adjustment is no longer necessary, except when the aircraft has been cleared for an approach (N)
(N) Note 2:
An approach clearance supersedes a speed adjustment request, and aircraft are expected to make their own speed adjustments to complete the approach. If you require aircraft to adjust speed while on approach, restate the request.
