Nats dress code
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that'll require a well balanced individual
You know, you could really have some fun with NATS-provided uniforms. When my sister was driving vehicles in Oz she asked for a handbag to be provided for all the bits and pieces connected with her work which she was required to cart around. Handbag was duly issued but then came the protests from the male employees who regarded the handbag as a perk. Bosses responded by saying that all employees, male or female, were entitled to a handbag but that the bags must be seen to be used for work.
Now, just imagine the fun you could have - the ladies given the choice of skirt, dress, (with necessary provision for tights, stockings etc) or trousers and then what for the gentlemen? Equal opportunities etc dictates that what is good enough for one is good enough for the other. Someone earlier on suggested a special NATS tartan this would solve the skirt problem for the gentlemen who may prefer not to have to wear a skirt or dress and would keep the Scots happy. Kilts all round? Nice and airy so would help to keep everyone cool. Just let your imagination run riot - it could be fun. 
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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Why are posts criticising the OP being deleted?
Why has my post suggesting P6 Driver keep his nose out of this NATS thread been deleted?
•No flaming/personal attacks. (Play the ball, not the player.)
•No swearing, sexually explicit or vulgar language.
Shouldn't be too hard for people to understand what they signed up to, and comply with.
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I know this forum is moderated but surely pointing out how childish, self-centred and self-important a posting is is fair comment. No one living in the real world would kick-up a stink about not being allowed to wear flip flops to work.
Incidentally the OP calls his colleagues in the TMA
Why is that insult allowed?
From Wikitionary
Incidentally the OP calls his colleagues in the TMA
bros and ho's
From Wikitionary
Noun
ho (plural hos or hoes)
1. (slang, pejorative) A whore; a sexually loose woman; in general use as a highly offensive name-calling word for a female with connotations of loose sexuality.
ho (plural hos or hoes)
1. (slang, pejorative) A whore; a sexually loose woman; in general use as a highly offensive name-calling word for a female with connotations of loose sexuality.
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THREADS THREAD
Presenting a professional appearance has become anathema to ATC professionals. In the USA, I believe it is because the dress code was seen as one of the few management imposed rules that might be negotiable back in the 1970's.
"You may be able to make us toe the company line as to pay, hours of work, etc., but this is a free country and I'll be damned if you can tell me how to dress!"
The result was the sloppier the better, and FAA decided it wasn't worth the fight. To this day many USA controllers look like bums at work. They believe that nobody sees them, so what's the big deal.
Actually, lots of people do see them, either in person as they come and go to work, online and in the press. Maybe it's time for a bit of self-evaluation by some controllers as to how they dress for work.
"You may be able to make us toe the company line as to pay, hours of work, etc., but this is a free country and I'll be damned if you can tell me how to dress!"
The result was the sloppier the better, and FAA decided it wasn't worth the fight. To this day many USA controllers look like bums at work. They believe that nobody sees them, so what's the big deal.
Actually, lots of people do see them, either in person as they come and go to work, online and in the press. Maybe it's time for a bit of self-evaluation by some controllers as to how they dress for work.
More than just an ATCO
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When I joined as an ATCA 3 in '69, my first day in the Ops room at LATCC,
Why has my post suggesting P6 Driver keep his nose out of this NATS thread been deleted?
IIRC I heard a story one of the ATCAs at Southern (that dates it) asked for appropriate clothing to be issued (ex-mil. obviously) and was provided with a brown storeman's type coat.
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This thread is directed specifically at the NATS employees at Swanwick and as one who worked at Swanwick for many years I have followed this thread with some interest and in my opinion the manner of dress of employees is a "bit of a red herring", but is or possibly was symptomatic of Swanwick and its culture.
I first went to Swanwick approximately one year prior to its opening to work in the ATC Training Section and was shocked by the culture change from the old ATC centre at West Drayton, near LHR. There were many disparaging remarks about "Those people from West Drayton" who were the operational ATC staff who were due to transfer to Swanwick when the West Drayton centre closed even though few operational staff had visited the Swanwick Centre.
In my opinion the Swanwick centre had an "office culture" which was ill-suited to the change to a 24/365 facility that it later became and manifested itself in the perception that "real people" worked in offices and the buliding and its facilities worked to that ethos, whereas the "operational resources" worked in the Operations Room. This perception resulted in the office working personnel working in the established shirts and ties whereas the "operational resources" dressed in "relaxed manner" because they did not matter anyway and attitudes became entrenched and became evident from their individual dress code.
I would also make the observation that this culture is not unique to Swanwick or NATS and I remember taking a friend of mine who was a British Airways training Captain to Swanwick for a visit. My friend had spent many hours with me on duty both at LHR and West Drayton and found the whole experience facinating, however after about one hour at Swanwick he asked to leave and even I could sense that he felt uncomfortable.
We had lunch at the Jolly Sailor and he confided that his experience at Swanwick was identical to his experiences at the new BA HQ at Waterside under the then Chairman Robert Ayling where real people worked at Waterside and then there were the "troublesome wasters" over at the airport who flew and operated aeroplanes and in my friends opinion at that time the airline "lost the plot"
I left Swanwick four years ago and my observations may not be valid anymore, but I would suggest that the dress code issue is more to do with individual, group, or corporate identity than whether one wears a tie or not.
I first went to Swanwick approximately one year prior to its opening to work in the ATC Training Section and was shocked by the culture change from the old ATC centre at West Drayton, near LHR. There were many disparaging remarks about "Those people from West Drayton" who were the operational ATC staff who were due to transfer to Swanwick when the West Drayton centre closed even though few operational staff had visited the Swanwick Centre.
In my opinion the Swanwick centre had an "office culture" which was ill-suited to the change to a 24/365 facility that it later became and manifested itself in the perception that "real people" worked in offices and the buliding and its facilities worked to that ethos, whereas the "operational resources" worked in the Operations Room. This perception resulted in the office working personnel working in the established shirts and ties whereas the "operational resources" dressed in "relaxed manner" because they did not matter anyway and attitudes became entrenched and became evident from their individual dress code.
I would also make the observation that this culture is not unique to Swanwick or NATS and I remember taking a friend of mine who was a British Airways training Captain to Swanwick for a visit. My friend had spent many hours with me on duty both at LHR and West Drayton and found the whole experience facinating, however after about one hour at Swanwick he asked to leave and even I could sense that he felt uncomfortable.
We had lunch at the Jolly Sailor and he confided that his experience at Swanwick was identical to his experiences at the new BA HQ at Waterside under the then Chairman Robert Ayling where real people worked at Waterside and then there were the "troublesome wasters" over at the airport who flew and operated aeroplanes and in my friends opinion at that time the airline "lost the plot"
I left Swanwick four years ago and my observations may not be valid anymore, but I would suggest that the dress code issue is more to do with individual, group, or corporate identity than whether one wears a tie or not.
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 10th May 2012 at 10:38.
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...and any thoughts about the possibly even stronger 'who the **** are all those office people at the CTC? What do they do all day?' culture that seems prevalent amongst the watchkeeping staff?
Explaining away the lack of smart dress as a symptom of operational people not being welcomed with open arms when Swanwick opened, and beginning to feel that they did not matter, is a bit of a red herring in itself, surely?
I just find it really sad that some people appear far more worked up about the possibility that they may be asked to think about how they are perceived by potential customers (just take a moment and think about that word!) than by training matters, recruitment, changing skills, the safety system ridding ATCOs of the ability to think for themselves and use ability and experience and all the other far, far more important issues we have to deal with.
But hey, my manager has just asked me to not look so scruffy, maybe wear trousers and a pair of shoes rather than shorts and flipflops, so I'm off on strike. Who's with me?
Explaining away the lack of smart dress as a symptom of operational people not being welcomed with open arms when Swanwick opened, and beginning to feel that they did not matter, is a bit of a red herring in itself, surely?
I just find it really sad that some people appear far more worked up about the possibility that they may be asked to think about how they are perceived by potential customers (just take a moment and think about that word!) than by training matters, recruitment, changing skills, the safety system ridding ATCOs of the ability to think for themselves and use ability and experience and all the other far, far more important issues we have to deal with.
But hey, my manager has just asked me to not look so scruffy, maybe wear trousers and a pair of shoes rather than shorts and flipflops, so I'm off on strike. Who's with me?
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You've hit the nail on the head Gonzo. There are plenty of us at NSL units facing potential loss of contracts, who would gladly abide by a dress code!!!
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I have a NATS tie. Failed my Approach Radar Rating practical in 1981 whilst wearing it.
Just after Red's big re-brand, I was furtling around on NATSnet, (as you do), and found the 'corporate gift pages. I wanted to get a pair of NATS cuff-links, but I wasn't allowed to buy any.
"These items are for potential customers" the lady said.
"But surely I am a potential customer?" said I.
"No, that's not what I mean, I suggest you speak to your 'line-manager'", said she.
Never got my cuff-links. A shame, they looked quite smart with the swirly stripes on.
Just after Red's big re-brand, I was furtling around on NATSnet, (as you do), and found the 'corporate gift pages. I wanted to get a pair of NATS cuff-links, but I wasn't allowed to buy any.
"These items are for potential customers" the lady said.
"But surely I am a potential customer?" said I.
"No, that's not what I mean, I suggest you speak to your 'line-manager'", said she.
Never got my cuff-links. A shame, they looked quite smart with the swirly stripes on.
Disappointed
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Pity I didn't know about that Zooker, I could have put some of said cufflinks and other items from the "corporate gift pack" your way including a very natty notebook and a cracking pen.
All quality stuff you understand.
All quality stuff you understand.
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I've got a pair of NATS cuff-links.
Was that a sartorial hint from my ex-colleagues or was it my leaving present?
OTB
Was that a sartorial hint from my ex-colleagues or was it my leaving present?
OTB
I wanna pair!! My 25 year gift was a pair of lead glass/silver vases with an insurance value of about £800; I never knew cufflinks were available and even now I'm only a FISO (after 34 years as an ATCO with NATS) I still wear 'proper' shirts and ties to work.
When I was still at LATCC before my cadet course, Pete Wyre, then a crew chief, told me (with a smirk on his face) he'd just been 'pulled' by the Watch Manager not only for taking his jacket off, but horror of horrors, he was wearing a SHORT SLEEVED shirt!
Pete later became SATCO Boscombe Down, until he had the audacity to do an MOD(PE) Air Observers course which involved parachuting out of an Andover off Portland. He was quickly posted out.
When I was still at LATCC before my cadet course, Pete Wyre, then a crew chief, told me (with a smirk on his face) he'd just been 'pulled' by the Watch Manager not only for taking his jacket off, but horror of horrors, he was wearing a SHORT SLEEVED shirt!
Pete later became SATCO Boscombe Down, until he had the audacity to do an MOD(PE) Air Observers course which involved parachuting out of an Andover off Portland. He was quickly posted out.
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I've got a NATS biro. Cheap and nasty corporate gift sort of thing- nothing you would treasure. Also had a NATS coffee mug that changed colour and the NATS swirly stripes appeared when you put hot coffee inside. Got sweet FA from the company when I retired though, not even a letter wishing me well. (Actually I think they were glad to get rid of me - bit of a thorn in management's side).
Lon More,my friend,no-one has 'died and made me God',but what a great idea that would be for a thread - what would you change (I suppose it will have to be in aviation terms) if you became The Big Boss.
I assume you did not see my post in which I suggested 'tongue in cheek', and with 3 smilies,that as P6 Driver is not a NATS ( or even civilian) ATCO his inputs on dress,no doubt also made tongue in cheek,are not relevant.
He is a serviceman, who recently made a post in the Military Aircrew section regarding receiving his pension in a few weeks time, when he is 55 I believe.A serviceman's take on working life and conditions is often markedly different from a civilians,I know because I spent 8 years as a navigator in the RAF and my eldest son spent 20 years as a pilot. When a service boss says 'jump', you reply 'how high Sir', whereas in civvy street when a boss , let's say a NATS manager, says to someone like a well-trained and well-motivated ATCO, 'Jump', they reply 'Why,what for,if you show me a good reason,then I will jump'.
When I did my Aerodrome training at Brum' dear old Dave Vaughan waved an IPCS application form under my nose. 'I don't like unions' says I,'Typical ex-RAF response' says Dave 'You'll see the light eventually'.
Of course he was right, the penny eventually dropped that union membership wasn't just about pay and strikes, but all sorts of terms and conditions of service.
Back to the OP, who in principle I agree with (and so does my other son, a Swanwick controller), although he did overstate his case somewhat. The union should be looking at every aspect of T & C's, as if management think they can impose their will in one area and win, it won't be too long before another area is under attack.
Finally for those who float the idea of some sort of uniform or corporate identity dress, be careful what you wish for! Polo shirts and chinos may be fine today but you bet that in a few years time we will hear of items such as jewellery and crucifixs being banned - just look at BA!
Back to my bathchair, regards to all, Brian W
I assume you did not see my post in which I suggested 'tongue in cheek', and with 3 smilies,that as P6 Driver is not a NATS ( or even civilian) ATCO his inputs on dress,no doubt also made tongue in cheek,are not relevant.
He is a serviceman, who recently made a post in the Military Aircrew section regarding receiving his pension in a few weeks time, when he is 55 I believe.A serviceman's take on working life and conditions is often markedly different from a civilians,I know because I spent 8 years as a navigator in the RAF and my eldest son spent 20 years as a pilot. When a service boss says 'jump', you reply 'how high Sir', whereas in civvy street when a boss , let's say a NATS manager, says to someone like a well-trained and well-motivated ATCO, 'Jump', they reply 'Why,what for,if you show me a good reason,then I will jump'.
When I did my Aerodrome training at Brum' dear old Dave Vaughan waved an IPCS application form under my nose. 'I don't like unions' says I,'Typical ex-RAF response' says Dave 'You'll see the light eventually'.
Of course he was right, the penny eventually dropped that union membership wasn't just about pay and strikes, but all sorts of terms and conditions of service.
Back to the OP, who in principle I agree with (and so does my other son, a Swanwick controller), although he did overstate his case somewhat. The union should be looking at every aspect of T & C's, as if management think they can impose their will in one area and win, it won't be too long before another area is under attack.
Finally for those who float the idea of some sort of uniform or corporate identity dress, be careful what you wish for! Polo shirts and chinos may be fine today but you bet that in a few years time we will hear of items such as jewellery and crucifixs being banned - just look at BA!
Back to my bathchair, regards to all, Brian W
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As I'm one of the people who have had no chance to see the post about me that has so upset someone as to cause them to break the rather simple forum rules about the nature of posts, could someone be kind enough to PM me with details please?
I apologise if my two posts have caused someone to lose their "cyber self-control", but please remember;
1. It's only the internet.
2. I am as well qualified to make posts on this site as many readers.
3. There's a button in the top right corner of the screen which will sort out your problem for you.
There now, done without resort to personal attacks or abuse.
I apologise if my two posts have caused someone to lose their "cyber self-control", but please remember;
1. It's only the internet.
2. I am as well qualified to make posts on this site as many readers.
3. There's a button in the top right corner of the screen which will sort out your problem for you.
There now, done without resort to personal attacks or abuse.
TDM:
Weather's always so b0ll0cky when I'm at work I rarely wear cravats nowadays. Check your e-mails.
PS Remember our GATCO visit to Plessey Radar at Cowes? All the blokes were given ties and all the birds got headscarves. What Don Hickson got I can't remember.
Weather's always so b0ll0cky when I'm at work I rarely wear cravats nowadays. Check your e-mails.
PS Remember our GATCO visit to Plessey Radar at Cowes? All the blokes were given ties and all the birds got headscarves. What Don Hickson got I can't remember.
Last edited by chevvron; 10th May 2012 at 11:13.