NATS Staff leaving
Join Date: Jul 2011
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You know, I am current candidate for NATS ATC in the selection process. When I read all these comments they obviously don't come to me as an incentive. But then ofcourse, I guess that whatever job or professional you become, there is always going to be a group of people who are not happy. It is impossible to keep all the staff pleased.
Yet, I do question myself the following, does the whole sum of unsatisfied staff at NATS ATC compose a higher percentage than any other company of similar nature?. If so, not good.
Yet, I do question myself the following, does the whole sum of unsatisfied staff at NATS ATC compose a higher percentage than any other company of similar nature?. If so, not good.
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To put your mind at rest mts1, I've also worked for a short period for Airservices and despite what may appear dissatisfaction with NATS i can assure you that Airservices are worse.
Remember also that this thread is largely retired people comparing "the good old days" of our youth. So the grumbles you're reading should be balanced by the opinions of younger people currently working.
(edit) wow 4 posts and I'm no longer probationary.
Remember also that this thread is largely retired people comparing "the good old days" of our youth. So the grumbles you're reading should be balanced by the opinions of younger people currently working.
(edit) wow 4 posts and I'm no longer probationary.
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mts1
I'm echoing what HD has said - there wasn't, for me, any better job in view. It was only the general management ethos, and the actions of a VERY few individual 'managers' who ruined life.
I'm echoing what HD has said - there wasn't, for me, any better job in view. It was only the general management ethos, and the actions of a VERY few individual 'managers' who ruined life.
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HD,
Quote: Do what I did for 31 years - go to work, talk to the planes and come home. Don't become involved in anything else at all.
Don't know whether it's possible to do that in 21st century NATS. At my unit everyone had what the military call 'secondary duties': Training Officer, Standards, UCE, Safety Officer, Aerodrome Manual author, Document Impact Assessor, Safety Services Liaison, Airfield Driving Licences, Briefings, Incident Investigator etc etc, plus whatever project or initiative the GM wanted to delegate. Certainly anyone who progresses to the ranks of Watch Management will spend a vast proportion of their time on non-headset activities. Just talking to the planes and going home for 31 years will nowadays see you very much out of favour, and at the back of the queue for any courses, privileges or perks. (Not that NATS management believes in privileges or perks
)
Quote: Do what I did for 31 years - go to work, talk to the planes and come home. Don't become involved in anything else at all.
Don't know whether it's possible to do that in 21st century NATS. At my unit everyone had what the military call 'secondary duties': Training Officer, Standards, UCE, Safety Officer, Aerodrome Manual author, Document Impact Assessor, Safety Services Liaison, Airfield Driving Licences, Briefings, Incident Investigator etc etc, plus whatever project or initiative the GM wanted to delegate. Certainly anyone who progresses to the ranks of Watch Management will spend a vast proportion of their time on non-headset activities. Just talking to the planes and going home for 31 years will nowadays see you very much out of favour, and at the back of the queue for any courses, privileges or perks. (Not that NATS management believes in privileges or perks
)
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Most certainly is possible. After 20 years with NATS my duties now consist of going to work, talking to some aircraft, going home. No instructing, assessing, verifying, investigating, developing, drafting, briefing, rostering or indeed anything. I suppose that makes me a bad team player. Oh well.
The scene : Annual Staff Report Interview
GenMgr : "Well, the point is Cartman, you've done jolly well this year with your controlling - in fact you've done more SRA's than anyone & I've had good reports about your vectoring. The problem is that that I've marked down your Key Performance Indicator on your personal development needs !"
ETC : "Beg your pardon sir but I don't understand !
GM : "You have personal development needs in the areas of instructing, assessing, verifying, investigating, risk assessment, instruction drafting, team briefing and rostering"
ETC : "But sir, with all due respect, I'm an ATCO and I believe I'm pretty good at it too - my job is to expedite and maintain a safe and orderly flow of air traffic ! "
GM : "That's all very well Cartman but we senior managers have much broader issues to consider - you need to buck up lad !
Sounds familiar ?
GenMgr : "Well, the point is Cartman, you've done jolly well this year with your controlling - in fact you've done more SRA's than anyone & I've had good reports about your vectoring. The problem is that that I've marked down your Key Performance Indicator on your personal development needs !"
ETC : "Beg your pardon sir but I don't understand !
GM : "You have personal development needs in the areas of instructing, assessing, verifying, investigating, risk assessment, instruction drafting, team briefing and rostering"
ETC : "But sir, with all due respect, I'm an ATCO and I believe I'm pretty good at it too - my job is to expedite and maintain a safe and orderly flow of air traffic ! "
GM : "That's all very well Cartman but we senior managers have much broader issues to consider - you need to buck up lad !
Sounds familiar ?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Mr. Cartman, in your very realistic scenario the 'manager' is the one who should be marked down for not facilitating your personal development from the outset.
nats just want b u ms in seats. The more validations one accrues the less likely one can be released for 'courses, privileges or perks'.
Fail to succeed...
Originally Posted by radarman
Just talking to the planes and going home for 31 years will nowadays see you very much out of favour, and at the back of the queue for any courses, privileges or perks.
Fail to succeed...
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Eric T Cart.........you still get my vote for one of the friendliest ATCO's I have to talk to in the line of duty......not bad for an old bugger like you!!
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"Another One Bites The Dust".
So sang Freddie Mercury a few years ago.
Sadly, this seems to be the theme song at NATS these days.
When will this "Global Leader In Air traffic Management And Airport Performance", wake-up, smell the proverbial coffee, and take notice of Joni's words, from Big Yellow Taxi.
"You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone"?
Lots of home-grown talent going to waste. - A shame.
So sang Freddie Mercury a few years ago.
Sadly, this seems to be the theme song at NATS these days.
When will this "Global Leader In Air traffic Management And Airport Performance", wake-up, smell the proverbial coffee, and take notice of Joni's words, from Big Yellow Taxi.
"You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone"?
Lots of home-grown talent going to waste. - A shame.
Last edited by ZOOKER; 8th Feb 2012 at 23:47.
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The long goodbye
I spent 9 years as a "Siggy", 19 years as ATCO (Gatters and LATCC) and 12 years at EUROCONTROL. Still recall the early days of ASRs. Called in and told I was "argumentative". We argued the point and he changed it!
When I left, I paid for the party! Director couldn't make it.............!
Still the best job ever and would do it all again!
When I left, I paid for the party! Director couldn't make it.............!
Still the best job ever and would do it all again!
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Big problem seemed to be that management went on all sorts courses to learn how (not) to become business managers and then tried to impose such stuff all the way down complete with Targets, KPI's, objectives, personal development yak yak yak
They totally lost sight of the fact that we need Controllers, Assistants and Engineers who just wanted to do as HD - come in, do a good job and go home.
They seemed to think it was a failure if you (speaking as as a Watch Mngr) didn't get everyone fighting among themselves to take on all sorts of extra stuff, coming in on days off etc.
Some of the better times I had was the last few months before I retired when I handed over to my successor, came in, talked to planes, went home happy and relaxed - and remembered that was what I joined for.
Those who want to do the same are seen as subversives rather than "team players" by the suits.
They totally lost sight of the fact that we need Controllers, Assistants and Engineers who just wanted to do as HD - come in, do a good job and go home.
They seemed to think it was a failure if you (speaking as as a Watch Mngr) didn't get everyone fighting among themselves to take on all sorts of extra stuff, coming in on days off etc.
Some of the better times I had was the last few months before I retired when I handed over to my successor, came in, talked to planes, went home happy and relaxed - and remembered that was what I joined for.
Those who want to do the same are seen as subversives rather than "team players" by the suits.
Windowjob - couldn't have put it better myself KPIs should be banned, but seem to ruin everything at the moment from schools to health service to policing and now they're coming to an ops room near you
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Tracked you down !!!!
Hello Clint you old sod. Dave Howells here. I came across the interchange you had with chevvron (haven't found out who he is yet) re my working for Nat Somers as manager of Panshanger. I've actually sent you a seperate text re this.
My abiding memory of you is that we got pissed on a freebie to Jersey and you and Pete were holding me up, one on each arm. On trying to cross the A4 to get back to Feltham, I fell forward and neither of you were kind enough to release my arms, thus ensuring that the first thing that hit the tarmac was my chin.
Am still in touch with Rob Drew.
Get in touch if you read this - [email protected]
Cheers old son
My abiding memory of you is that we got pissed on a freebie to Jersey and you and Pete were holding me up, one on each arm. On trying to cross the A4 to get back to Feltham, I fell forward and neither of you were kind enough to release my arms, thus ensuring that the first thing that hit the tarmac was my chin.
Am still in touch with Rob Drew.
Get in touch if you read this - [email protected]
Cheers old son
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To cheer you up I thought I would let you know that it's not only NAT's management with the wrong attitude towards leavers.
When I decided to retire after 24 1/2 years service I sent an email to my section supervisor, room manager, her deputy as well as the head of department and his deputy.
My section supervisor and my head of department were top of the class. The latter was old school and came to see me and have a chat within a week of my email to make sure I was making the right choice etc. His deputy said he would visit on last day minus one, and didn't. My room manager was on leave but did send me an email but her deputy didn't even reply to my email and ignored me on the few times before I left when my shifts happen to be the same as her 9-5 mon-fri.
Only my shift supervisor came to my leaving do and two years later I've not bee replaced either (HM Goverment cost cutting).
When I decided to retire after 24 1/2 years service I sent an email to my section supervisor, room manager, her deputy as well as the head of department and his deputy.
My section supervisor and my head of department were top of the class. The latter was old school and came to see me and have a chat within a week of my email to make sure I was making the right choice etc. His deputy said he would visit on last day minus one, and didn't. My room manager was on leave but did send me an email but her deputy didn't even reply to my email and ignored me on the few times before I left when my shifts happen to be the same as her 9-5 mon-fri.
Only my shift supervisor came to my leaving do and two years later I've not bee replaced either (HM Goverment cost cutting).