One German sky for Europe?
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Katie, don't you know me ???...
I'm the one who ask for a total and exclusive european atcos collective merged into our private company... the only one able to sell our air traffic control knowledge to the entire SES... the only one able to respect our job and our needs... the only one able to maintain safety and a continuous european service... and surely, able to end the war the profession is facing...
...and maybe, if we really want it, the only one to offer lower charges to airlines...
I'm the one who ask for a total and exclusive european atcos collective merged into our private company... the only one able to sell our air traffic control knowledge to the entire SES... the only one able to respect our job and our needs... the only one able to maintain safety and a continuous european service... and surely, able to end the war the profession is facing...
...and maybe, if we really want it, the only one to offer lower charges to airlines...
Join Date: Aug 2006
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NATS TODAY SKYGUIDE TOMORROW
apparently the germans at the dfs in langen are having talks about taking over skyguides training operation in dubendorf and setting up a new center in southern germany. starting with the takeover of the skyguide training sektion (and moving it to a site in southern germany) in 2015, they are planning to follow that up with the repossession of their airspace over southern germany which, at the moment, the swiss control. they say this will tidy up things nicely (for them). more income from route chages i guess.
i also here the dfs will follow up on any nats bid for the provision of atc services swiss airports when the situation in switzerland alows this in the near future.
anybody know more about these items ?
i also here the dfs will follow up on any nats bid for the provision of atc services swiss airports when the situation in switzerland alows this in the near future.
anybody know more about these items ?
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Katie you are extremely well informed as always.
I disagree only with one point : I am not sure DFS is ready to take over MUAC for the reason you mentioned : they are out of cash. The recent GdF strike/agreement has done MUAC good in that any money set aside for an eventual take over is gone ( or will be soon gone ).
Because "buying" MUAC means huge Financial penalties to pay to the 2 other partners, as per the 1972 treaty, still in force..
The former FABEC head now chairs the Group on the future Institutions for Maastricht, and has put 5 options on the table. But until now it was the 2 German Ministries , transport and Defence ( we must not forget Lippe) calling the shots, not the DFS leadership. So DFS alone ? I don't think so. Consortium DFS-NVNL-Belgocontrol, more likely I would say. Satu quo ? possible ..Eurocontrol cannot be an ANSP anymore but could manage an ATS facility on request and behalf of States asking for it under new rules. .But I do not think this is the favored option at the moment.
I might of course be wrong in the end, but we'll see.
I disagree only with one point : I am not sure DFS is ready to take over MUAC for the reason you mentioned : they are out of cash. The recent GdF strike/agreement has done MUAC good in that any money set aside for an eventual take over is gone ( or will be soon gone ).
Because "buying" MUAC means huge Financial penalties to pay to the 2 other partners, as per the 1972 treaty, still in force..
The former FABEC head now chairs the Group on the future Institutions for Maastricht, and has put 5 options on the table. But until now it was the 2 German Ministries , transport and Defence ( we must not forget Lippe) calling the shots, not the DFS leadership. So DFS alone ? I don't think so. Consortium DFS-NVNL-Belgocontrol, more likely I would say. Satu quo ? possible ..Eurocontrol cannot be an ANSP anymore but could manage an ATS facility on request and behalf of States asking for it under new rules. .But I do not think this is the favored option at the moment.
I might of course be wrong in the end, but we'll see.
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Iamhere,
...Unless the French decide they need the space they lease to the Swiss, West of Geneva. They could decide to take back and work their airspace.
Fact is that they could need it to change the routes in Reims ACC (that's part of one of the FABEC's projects). In this case, thanks to FABEC applying SESAR, there would be no more Geneva ACC...
This will mostly depend on the Americans' decision to free the military areas they use around DIK (Luxembourg) for their airbase in Ramstein... or not...
I love Merton's law !
they say this will tidy up things nicely (for them).
Fact is that they could need it to change the routes in Reims ACC (that's part of one of the FABEC's projects). In this case, thanks to FABEC applying SESAR, there would be no more Geneva ACC...
This will mostly depend on the Americans' decision to free the military areas they use around DIK (Luxembourg) for their airbase in Ramstein... or not...
I love Merton's law !
Last edited by BrATCO; 29th Dec 2011 at 21:29.
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.Unless the French decide they need the space they lease to the Swiss, West of Geneva. They could decide to take back and work their airspace
Re the future of Reims as an ACC, that is interesting. In FABEC it is obvious that with Rhein, Maastricht and Reims one centre (at least) has to go. The German and the French think it will be Maastricht but the final truth might be elsewhere. Look at the recent investments made ( and already paid) in Rhein and Maastricht, both using very advanced systems (NFDPS and Favorit )both based on Indra,(i.e compatible) and the ability to increase the number of sectors instantly , ( Computing capacity and Ops room space. ) Then look at the sector capacities declared to the CFMU in all 3 centres.
Also Reims being State own and its staff civil servants, relocating them will be cheap, unlike in MUAC and Rhein.
If the decision would be purely on finacial ,costs-benefits, capacity terms, Reims is the one to go.
But that kind of decsion will be political,. not financial, so Reims will probably stay.. but who knows ?
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New Year Musing
The speculation about NATS, MUAC and DFS, Skyguide and now Reims is interesting.
I offer the following thoughts per my earlier posts, first for NATS, as I suggested before, look to Toulouse not Langen for a prospect with real legs.
For MUAC, I agree with ATC watcher, my bet is some kind of multinational FABEC derived solution probably DFS/LVNL is the most probable, and to be concluded in the latter part of 2012. Not Eurocontrol in any form.
For anything French expect more very public scrutiny and pressure on controller pay and conditions, before any significant changes. This worked for the employers in Ireland and Spain. Mainly for this reason therefore, I dont expect to see any FABEC consolidation in France for some time.. 2- 3 years perhaps longer.
Skyguide is harder to judge, but consolidation is likely, most probable on the German side, because France will be too slow (see above) for the Swiss, who want to move quickly. France will lose out as a result.
Elsewhere as I have said before, there is increasing indication that outsourcing of towers and training by the less efficient ANSP will be used to cut costs. In other words the less efficient ANSP will shrink quite quickly.
Expect new entrants over the next year or so, in the ATC service business as a result, in the airline world easyjet came out of nowhere to change the European scene and to dominate a large market. A similar step change for ATC is increasingly likely.
Very interesting times
Katie
I offer the following thoughts per my earlier posts, first for NATS, as I suggested before, look to Toulouse not Langen for a prospect with real legs.
For MUAC, I agree with ATC watcher, my bet is some kind of multinational FABEC derived solution probably DFS/LVNL is the most probable, and to be concluded in the latter part of 2012. Not Eurocontrol in any form.
For anything French expect more very public scrutiny and pressure on controller pay and conditions, before any significant changes. This worked for the employers in Ireland and Spain. Mainly for this reason therefore, I dont expect to see any FABEC consolidation in France for some time.. 2- 3 years perhaps longer.
Skyguide is harder to judge, but consolidation is likely, most probable on the German side, because France will be too slow (see above) for the Swiss, who want to move quickly. France will lose out as a result.
Elsewhere as I have said before, there is increasing indication that outsourcing of towers and training by the less efficient ANSP will be used to cut costs. In other words the less efficient ANSP will shrink quite quickly.
Expect new entrants over the next year or so, in the ATC service business as a result, in the airline world easyjet came out of nowhere to change the European scene and to dominate a large market. A similar step change for ATC is increasingly likely.
Very interesting times
Katie
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DFS will replace its entire senior executive team at the end of this year.
That should put a stop to the NATS takeover stories!
"German air navigation service provider DFS will replace its entire senior executive team at the end of this year.
The supervisory board has decided not to extend the contracts of chief executive and board chairman Dieter Kaden, Jens Bergmann, director finance and human resources, and Ralph Riedle, managing director operations, at the end of 2012.
Bergmann has been central in the remuneration conflict with air traffic controllers, which led to planned industrial action in August, although this eventually did not take place.
A DFS spokeswoman said that none of the executives' contracts were prematurely ended. "
Now its just about the 50m hole in the budget this year. Hold on for a rough ride!
Katie
"German air navigation service provider DFS will replace its entire senior executive team at the end of this year.
The supervisory board has decided not to extend the contracts of chief executive and board chairman Dieter Kaden, Jens Bergmann, director finance and human resources, and Ralph Riedle, managing director operations, at the end of 2012.
Bergmann has been central in the remuneration conflict with air traffic controllers, which led to planned industrial action in August, although this eventually did not take place.
A DFS spokeswoman said that none of the executives' contracts were prematurely ended. "
Now its just about the 50m hole in the budget this year. Hold on for a rough ride!
Katie
