Basic/Traffic/FIS???

[monkeyscribbler]

Originally posted this on the GA forum but this place seems more appropriate. Can any of you nice ATCers/ RT examiners help out a poor student?

thanks



Basic/Traffic/FIS???
Hello all,

new to flying and new to PPRuNe so be nice...

I have my skills test and r/t practical this weekend. Where i fly we have a LARS but only ever ask for Basic service.

I've read the definitions of each service but they dont mean much in practical terms to me. Can anyone explain them in simple terms, and explain what an R/T examiner means when he says I should "which is the safest and what kind of station can provide which."

all help gratefully received.

[SilentHandover]

Air Space Safety: ATSOCAS 917

Try looking here. Hope it helps.

[Over+Out]

Bring back RIS and RAS
A much easier system to understand !

[jking101]

I’m just about to finish my radar training so have just had it all drilled into me about what each service means. Basically you have 3 services outside controlled airspace:
Basic service: you get weather information and any other information that may help your flight for example if it is known that your destination is closed you will be told, you can get general traffic information something like “there is a lot of traffic to the south of Brize” something like that.
Traffic service: we identify you with a squawk or turn or some other method so I know which blip on the screen is you, I tell you where any conflicting traffic is and any information you would also get with a basic service but the traffic information is more specific to you such as, traffic 12 o’clock 10 miles right to left indicating FL50 etc. all you need then is to let ATC know when you are climbing or descending or turning so we know if that will take you into conflict with any other traffic but you are responsible for not hitting anyone
Deconfliction service: Again we identify you and you shouldn’t climb descend or turn without telling us 1st it’s the same as a traffic service but when we pass you information on traffic we give you a heading or climb or decent to keep you away from it for example G-XX traffic 2 o’clock 12 miles right to left if not sighted turn right heading XXX, you should not really ask for this if you are VFR as the deconfliction advice may take you into IMC but if you let ATC know you must stay VFR they will try to keep you VMC
As for R/T just learn what info we need like, callsign departure and destination aerodrome, ac type and how to ask for the service.
PS FIS doesnt exist anymore thats the basic service now

Hope it helps

[RPMcMurphy]

Three services outside controlled airspace you say? Better get back to the books and look up Procedural Service.

[Crazy Voyager]

I've been told a traffic service can be provided without a radar, is that true?

[heretostay]

I've been told a traffic service can be provided without a radar, is that true?

Only when the ATCOs Crystal Ball is serviceable.

[heretostay]

I’m just about to finish my radar training so have just had it all drilled into me about what each service means. Basically you have 3 services outside controlled airspace:

Which college? We need to know which one to avoid sending trainees to!

[Barnaby the Bear]

Just to add.. A Traffic service can only be provided with a Radar.
With all the services you are always Ultimately responsible for your own separation even a Deconfliction service.
And don't forget Procedural Service.

[Glamdring]

Originally Posted by RPMcMurphy

Three services outside controlled airspace you say? Better get back to the books and look up Procedural Service.

...and Alerting Service

[rodan]

PS FIS doesnt exist anymore thats the basic service now

Not true. The various ATSOCAS, BS, TS and DS, are collectively known as the Flight Information Services in the UK, as mandated by ICAO.

[bingofuel]

Three services outside controlled airspace you say

Give the guy a break, he did say basically 3 services, and then explained the 3 services normally used day to day by a GA pilot.He did not say 'only 3'

I think he was just trying to help the new guy!

[Occams Razor]

Originally Posted by -Barnaby the Bear

With all the services you are always Ultimately responsible for your own separation even a Deconfliction service.

...and also responsible for your own terrain clearance. No DS to be provided below ATC terrain safe level, pilots to be reminded they are on their own terrain clearance below this level on a TS.

5 types of service...alerting, procedural, basic, traffic, deconfliction.

Can't provide a TS without radar, as the aircraft needs to be identified.

[Spitoon]

5 types of service...alerting, procedural, basic, traffic, deconfliction.

If you are classifying services in ICAO terms we should start with Air Traffic Services which consist of the Air Traffic Control Service, the Flight Information Service and the Alerting Service. In the UK the FIS has been further sub-divided into basic, traffic, deconfliction and procedural services. The Alerting service is a separate entity and, if we're getting pedantic, it should not be considered as part of the FIS.

[Glamdring]

If we are getting pedantic, the UK FIS have been further divided into basic, offshore basic, traffic, offshore traffic, deconfliction, offshore deconfliction and procedural services.

[LEGAL TENDER]

Load of ****e

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Here Here

Well said Legal Tender.


The thread started with a simple question.

[Helen49]

The simple answer to the simple question is........read CAP774 available on the CAA website free of charge. If you still have any difficulties, suggest you visit a radar equipped ATC unit and have a chat with the ATCOs.

It is essential that you understand the system outside controlled airspace in the interests of both yourself and the ATS units to whom you speak as explained in the CAP.

[possibleconsequences]

Monkeyscribbler,

If you are learning to fly in the south try asking for a visit to ATC. Bournemouth maybe.Give them a call.

[Standard Noise]

I like threads like this one, they make I laugh!

something like “there is a lot of traffic to the south of Brize”

Aye, there would be, the south of England is usually busy!

As for bringing back RAS and RIS, bollox to that, it's much better having no responsibility!