You are off radar

[malecontrol]

Thank you all, I think I got the answers I wanted.

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MaleControl:

It is my understanding that ADS multilateration equipment was recently installed in the Maldives Islands - is this correct? Can you receive data from an aircraft equipped to transmit ADS-B via the 1090 MHz extended squitter?

Michael

[Big Pistons Forever]

Canada is going through a similar situation at airports which have only flight service stations. Since the FSS folks can only offer advisory information they were deemed to be unable to say "radar identified" even though they get a radar feed. The work around seems to be them saying "roger your ident" and then providing the usual traffic advisories, only this time instead of passing on pilot reported postions of other aircraft they can report the actual radar positions relative to you.

[malecontrol]

Yes that's correct, Mr. Michael. But what we have here is ADS-C if I am not mistaken. Not really sure of the stuff....but I will check and tell you more.

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Hi MaleControl:

Thanks, I would appreciate it very much if you could check and let us know if your new system supports the ADS-B (broadcast) standard, rather than the ADS-C (contract) standard.

Here in Canada, our ATC organization (Nav Canada) has implemented ADS-B in the Hudson Bay region. This implementation uses the ICAO specification (the 1090 MHz extended squitter), rather than the less common American FAA specification (890 MHz UAT). More info here...

The new Series 400 Twin Otters that will soon be delivered to Maldivian operators fully support ADS-B OUT using the ICAO specification (Doc 7030/4) 1090 MHz extended squitter. This means that the aircraft continuously transmit flight ID, lat/long, magnetic heading, true and indicated airspeed, groundspeed, vertical speed, selected altitude, and selected barometric pressure setting. If your new system supports ADS-B, you will see this information whenever one of these aircraft is within range of a ground station.

Michael

[NaFenn]

in australia, "Identified" is used for aircraft who are visible on radar, and are being tracked by ATC, "Identification Terminated" is used for Aircraft who decend below radar/leave radar coverage, and aircraft who leave controlled airspace.

"Recycle your transponder" isn't strictly correct i beleive, but is understood by all

[Blockla]

...and aircraft who leave controlled airspace

No, I believe it's "Control Services terminated" leaving CTA... "identification terminated" applies when ATC can't see you anymore (they may be concurrent in some locations, but definitely not always).

[malecontrol]

Michael, what we have is ADS-C.

[Spitoon]

But what is the purpose or reason for saying trffic believed to be.....I mean isn't it clear that he is who you think who he is by the tranponder code? We never identify those traffic, we just shout the callsign and, for an example, tell them you got trffic to your right or 2 o'clock at 10 miles or you are number two in the sequence behind someone. Do yo mean this cannot be done unless I hold a radar rating? In our aerodrome all the VFR traffic have pre-assigned transponder codes and they always use the same code. When they are airborne we mannually input the callsign (which is also the rgistration of the ACFT) corresponding to the code.

The reason for saying traffic believed to be you is that it enables a radar controller to offer information without positively identifying the aircraft or committing to providing a radar service (in some countries and some airspace classes this is an option). Aircraft are not always easily identifiable - sometimes the rules allow the use of conspicuity or common use codes which mean that more than one aircraft will have the same squawk.

Providing traffic information in the way you describe seems OK (to me anyway) without a radar rating. It's effectively providing a FIS with the aid of radar which is something the ICAO rules permit and is done in many parts of the world.

[malecontrol]

Thanks Spitoon that was a lot of help.

We don't 'identify' the traffic in the control zone because, as everyone agrees we can't since we are not radar rated.

But we have a procedure that says: If you lose the blip of an arrival make it descend to 500ft. If Mode C is U/S make it descend to 500ft. If you lose the blip or Mode C is not working of a departure don't let it climb above 2500ft. (Talking about only VFR traffic within the CTZ)

That is what leads to my original question. All say, I can't identify because I am not providing any radar service. Neither can I terminate a radar service because I never began one. But when I lose the blip I must be able tell the pilot that I just lost him and I got him when he appears back on, in standard phraseology. So what is the standard phraseology? I guess none.

Now personally what I do is, I use normal spoken English....but most of the others 'identify' them, because it's easier to say so.

Nafen you say in Australia 'identified' is used for traffic visible on radar. Does that mean that in Australia identified does not necessarily mean you are providing actual radar service that is application of speed and vectoring?

Am I dumb or what?

Anyway thank you all for your input, you guys have helped a lot.