Yet more FISO questions

[Glamdring]

Fair enough, and I agree, ATPL exams at the same time as ATCO training probably wouldn't be the wisest idea. It would be something to consider once you have done the ATPLs though, and they would look good on a NATS application. Depends how quickly you manage to get a flying job I suppose, but looking through the forums on here I would wager it would be a few years.

[CraigyD]

I would wager it would be a few years

Agreed !

I hope to have the ATPL exams done by next April and won't be doing the CPL flying course until the following year, so I will look into it more then.

[Bigbangman]

FISO

Hi,

Apologies for hijacking the thread but i have some questions about FISO's

I have recently retired at age 52 following redundancy (non aviation related). I've been into all things aviation since the 70's and was looking at self sponsoring a FISO licence. I also hold a lapsed CAA PPL which i will hopefully be revalidating as well.

The question really is what are the chances of getting a FISO position either part-time or ad-hoc or whatever, don't care so much about the pay would just be interested in doing a FISO role but obviously need a position to get the MER aspect.

I'm in the Midlands and having looked at aerodromes with FIS towers within 50-60 miles they don't seem to be overly prolific. Don't mind paying my own way but not to waste it all if nobody wants me or its a bit of a closed shop or reserved for retired ATCO's etc.

Views and thoughts appreciated.

Regards

[chevvron]

There might be a proportion of retired ATCOs; at my unit 2 out of 9 are just that. There's certainly an age gap, with 4 of us over 60 and the other 5 under 30.

[SKOS]

chevron

Hi Chevron,

If you don't mind me asking, any reason why you would retire as ATCO to be a FISO? I was of the opinion remaining as the former was far better? Forgive my ignorance though if I am wrong..............

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by SKOS

any reason why you would retire as ATCO to be a FISO?

Could it conceivably be that nats might be none too keen on operational ATCOs over sixty, I wonder....

[chevvron]

Precisely that. I volunteered to stay on after 60 part time, but the terms and conditions I was offered were not suitable for my requirements.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by chevvron

Precisely that. I volunteered to stay on after 60 part time, but the terms and conditions I was offered were not suitable for my requirements.

Me too. I too volunteered to stay on part time, but the terms and conditions I was offered by nats were a total insult after 40 years loyal service: A huge pay reduction to point 11.5 ATCO 3 Band 2 plus a whole string of conditions including no secondary employment permitted whatsoever, even for part-time. Hence now a FISO with an ATC Licence, which is nats' loss...

[SKOS]

Talkdownman/Chevron

Any reasons why nats wouldn't be too keen on ATCO's over 60. If currentl news is to be believed, the government really is wanting to raise the retirement age to 70 for men and 65 for women, am I right?

Also, what about passing all that experience to the students at the college - could that be a realistic option? I mean teaching or instructing at the college?

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by SKOS

what about passing all that experience to the students at the college - could that be a realistic option? I mean teaching or instructing at the college?

nats relocation terms and conditions from LTCC to Swanwick were extremely restrictive for TC ATCOs aged 57 and over. nats just didn't want to pay for them to move. In fact they just didn't want expensive old ATCOs at the top of the scale at all. They did their damndest to make it difficult for ATCOs aged 57 and over to move down. Relocation to the College would have been even less likely. It would appear that the only way for retirees to instruct at the College would be to work through an agency at a pay rate considerably less than that of an operational ATCO within Terminal Control. I can empathise with chevvron pulling out to become nats-free and a local FISO instead. The job satisfaction can be comparable on occasions.

Three of our seven FISOs are retired ATCOs but is is far from being a closed shop for retired ATCOs. I think it would be a great job for BigBangMan. How about Halfpenny Green?

[Bigbangman]

Hi all,

Thanks for the info, looks like it could be a possibility. I would think that by whats been said that its a role more performed by those with an interest in aviation rather than career job, this suits me as the involvement is a greater consideration than pay.

Thought about H'penny Green, also Shobdon and Cotswold (Kemble) but would prefer Wellesbourne as its a nice field just down the road and i will be looking to revalidate my PPL there.

In time and with luck we'll see. Next step is medical and a speculative approach to those above to see if any interest exists.

Thanks again

[chevvron]

Whilst I could have been an instructor at the college many years ago, the 'mind set' of student ATCOs nowadays is different. In my day, you applied because you had an interest in aviation, probably you were in a branch of the Air Cadet movement, and wanted a career which reflected this, whereas now, many (note I said many not all) students are university graduates who think they deserve a high paid job, but have no prior knowledge, experience or interest in aviation.
Yes I know all the so called experts say 'it's OK you can be trained to be an ATCO if you pass the selection tests' but I'm pretty certain the proportion of trainees who fail to reach validation standard (having passed the college course with flying colours) is much greater nowadays than it was 40 odd years ago.

[PhiltheReaper]

Opening an old thread

This thread is a bit like a faithful companion, getting a bit old, but still completely useful!

Chevron, I've seen your very sensible posts elsewhere on this forum and I'm grateful for those. If you don't mind, I'd like to hi-jack this thread to relate it a little to myself (selfish so and so)!

I live in North Yorkshire at the moment, and as you may be aware I have a current NATS application on-going.

I have done some research into FISOs, looked at the CAA CAP documents relating to radiotelephony and FISOs and coallated it into a Wikipedia article entitled Flight Information Service Officer (it helps me collect the research in my mind, and was useful for en.wiki! In fact, if you'd like to contribute to that article I'd be veeeeeery very thankful), but I still have a few questions.

I'm loosely addressing this post to you as I'm interested to hear that after NATS you became a FISO (in fact, if I fail the process somewhere of becoming an ATCO I will probably try to self-fund a FISO License immediately).

May I ask the following:

And slightly off topic (this should perhaps be in the NATS application thread, but this saves a short post!).

Thank you (and any other kind souls who might reply here).

Phil

[chevvron]

Can't think offhand what FISO airfields there might be in Yorkshire - most appear to be A/G or Safetycom. I'm afraid I'm not in a position to assess what FISO jobs might be around either; you tend to retire when you want rather than at a set age, although in my present situation, some people are getting 'second strings' such as gaining ATPLs or instructing as well as 'second' jobs outside aviation, so if this is the norm, you might find somewhere which is only part time.
It's certainly useful to get an A/G Certificate as if you get chance to use it, you will be able to understand RTF exchanges much better when (not if) you become an ATCO.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Any reasons why nats wouldn't be too keen on ATCO's over 60. If currentl news is to be believed, the government really is wanting to raise the retirement age to 70 for men and 65 for women, am I right?>>

Very few people would be capable of working a busy ATC sector well into their 60s. What has happened in the past is controllers have come off operational work and moved into office jobs. It's fairly easy at big units, but not at smaller ones.

[chevvron]

Just to reassure you, all controllers (and FISOs for that matter) irrespective of age are subject to an annual competency check, hence any deterioration in their capabilities or performance would be noticed.

[PhiltheReaper]

I am certainly going to go for the A/G certificate.

Also, thanks for the Confidence in my ability!

Phil