Spanish ATC
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Please forget everything you might have heard about sallaries. Sallaries were the first thing to go many months ago, and it is not what we are fighting for.
If you must know as an experienced approach controller at LECB I made 4300 EUR last month. Our last colleagues to join are making 2300 eur.
I love this job and if it was only an issue of money I'd consider myself happy. But it's not. We've gone from 1200 to upwards of 2000 hours. Management has decided unilaterally to increase traffic loads with absolutely no safety studies. We are enduring monthly rosters of 200 hours. When some of us folded to pressure (18 people had already been medically evacuated when I last asked in august) the goverment forced the medical inspection to turn down sick leaves. Colleagues of my have been working while still on anxiety medication, or decided to drop the treatment ot of fear of government retaliation.
Just culture has been completely obliterated, and recordings have been used arbitrarily to attack employees. We have been robbed of our holidays, and sick leaves have gone unpaid. They are losing trial after trial because the company is denying basic rights (leaves to attend small children). Even after having lost these trials the continue the practice (hopefully we will end up having an obvious case of mobbing)
With today's decree it is the fourth time this year that legislation has been passed specifically to change our terms and conditions, collective negotiation be damned.
And to top it all off to this day we are to be available 24/365 to work in the company deems it necessary.
So yes. I _DO_ claim slavery when all the basic rights that had been painfully gained through the 20th centry haven been swiftly dragged from under our feet, all in the name of economic interest and a complete disregard of operational safety.
So please don't bring back the issue of money. Money has not been an issue for a long time now. It's all about basic rights, our dignity and the safety of operations. I don't think I would have to stress that the people that are RIGHT NOW sending untrained military personnel to take control of the operation are not thinking too much about safety.
With all my regards,
Juan Toledo
If you must know as an experienced approach controller at LECB I made 4300 EUR last month. Our last colleagues to join are making 2300 eur.
I love this job and if it was only an issue of money I'd consider myself happy. But it's not. We've gone from 1200 to upwards of 2000 hours. Management has decided unilaterally to increase traffic loads with absolutely no safety studies. We are enduring monthly rosters of 200 hours. When some of us folded to pressure (18 people had already been medically evacuated when I last asked in august) the goverment forced the medical inspection to turn down sick leaves. Colleagues of my have been working while still on anxiety medication, or decided to drop the treatment ot of fear of government retaliation.
Just culture has been completely obliterated, and recordings have been used arbitrarily to attack employees. We have been robbed of our holidays, and sick leaves have gone unpaid. They are losing trial after trial because the company is denying basic rights (leaves to attend small children). Even after having lost these trials the continue the practice (hopefully we will end up having an obvious case of mobbing)
With today's decree it is the fourth time this year that legislation has been passed specifically to change our terms and conditions, collective negotiation be damned.
And to top it all off to this day we are to be available 24/365 to work in the company deems it necessary.
So yes. I _DO_ claim slavery when all the basic rights that had been painfully gained through the 20th centry haven been swiftly dragged from under our feet, all in the name of economic interest and a complete disregard of operational safety.
So please don't bring back the issue of money. Money has not been an issue for a long time now. It's all about basic rights, our dignity and the safety of operations. I don't think I would have to stress that the people that are RIGHT NOW sending untrained military personnel to take control of the operation are not thinking too much about safety.
With all my regards,
Juan Toledo
Guys, I think if Juan is right with only half of what he wrote, than the situation is way worse than most thought. You have to make these things public, beyond Spain, and your fellow ATC men/organizations and the pilots assosiations have to pick up this and push for a solution that is both safe and tolerable to both sides. Spanish Gobernment surely knows how much the country depends on tourism and how tourism depends on air travel...one should think...
The airlines/IATA need to address that scary stuff as well, it canīt be that they pay for a service conducted by understaffed, fatiqued, medicated and bullyed personel.
Let's hope that plenty of striking BA cabin crew, RMT members, French Air Traffic Controllers and other groups who persist in holding us to ransom are seriously inconvenienced by these actions. Sympathy to everybody else!
H49
H49
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The land that taste forgot
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Having wound ou the range on the radar, only 3 outbounds from Malaga heading South seen, nothing else moving in the 140 miles we can see North of Gib.
Seville centre reckon the issue will be resolved in Half an Hour.
The Guardia Civil are probably dusting off their big battons as i type
Seville centre reckon the issue will be resolved in Half an Hour.
The Guardia Civil are probably dusting off their big battons as i type
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Instead of blaming the controllers , try blaming the financially and morally bankrupt bunch of slime-bags who, in theory run the country.
It is their need to do as the cat does in the kitty litter, covering up, and having someone else pay for their ineptitude, that has led to this situation.
If we go back far enough I am sure an ATC job in Spain was VERY cushy indeed. How often as a pilot do you hear the same unfounded accusation against you (yeah sure , we all report at 1000 L operate one sector, spend two days shagging hosties by the pool at some beachside resort, to then return to our 5 days off) so what validity can one gve to the government (mis)information of their current Ts&C's ? ?
I believe they have finally been pushed too far, no-one was willing to listen, and now they have shown some cojones and this has happened.
I wish them the very best, but I fear the legacy of Franco will be used to quell this "no one expects the Spanish inquisition! !
"
It is their need to do as the cat does in the kitty litter, covering up, and having someone else pay for their ineptitude, that has led to this situation.
If we go back far enough I am sure an ATC job in Spain was VERY cushy indeed. How often as a pilot do you hear the same unfounded accusation against you (yeah sure , we all report at 1000 L operate one sector, spend two days shagging hosties by the pool at some beachside resort, to then return to our 5 days off) so what validity can one gve to the government (mis)information of their current Ts&C's ? ?
I believe they have finally been pushed too far, no-one was willing to listen, and now they have shown some cojones and this has happened.
I wish them the very best, but I fear the legacy of Franco will be used to quell this "no one expects the Spanish inquisition! !
"
Join Date: Jun 2010
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What about the AENA management in all this? They are avoiding the flak very professionally it seems.
Why are they not held responsible for letting matters get out of hand? Why are they not in the news for their irresponsible management? They were the ones who accepted these unbelievably good conditions that some of you claim the spanish controllers had. If the controllers were/are earning these huge salaries what salaries were/are the management earning? How much bonus did they make for every year where they fooled the public that all was in order, while saving money by not training new controllers, instead digging a hole under the existing ones by offering them huge compensations for overtime? Their incompetence had to bring the ministries to take care of the action and they just sit on the sideline watch the storm pass by? Are they not responsible for their slack cost control and unnecessary airport improvements cost of which is hundred fold of that of the controllers' salary?
So suddenly the workers are the only responsible ones for the failings of a company and management are the poor victims. Meanwhile the only profit making MAIN airports of the country are being put on private sector by a SOCIALIST government! All this does not smell fishy but the controllers are a bunch of spoilt brat. Fools.
Why are they not held responsible for letting matters get out of hand? Why are they not in the news for their irresponsible management? They were the ones who accepted these unbelievably good conditions that some of you claim the spanish controllers had. If the controllers were/are earning these huge salaries what salaries were/are the management earning? How much bonus did they make for every year where they fooled the public that all was in order, while saving money by not training new controllers, instead digging a hole under the existing ones by offering them huge compensations for overtime? Their incompetence had to bring the ministries to take care of the action and they just sit on the sideline watch the storm pass by? Are they not responsible for their slack cost control and unnecessary airport improvements cost of which is hundred fold of that of the controllers' salary?
So suddenly the workers are the only responsible ones for the failings of a company and management are the poor victims. Meanwhile the only profit making MAIN airports of the country are being put on private sector by a SOCIALIST government! All this does not smell fishy but the controllers are a bunch of spoilt brat. Fools.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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As a controller from a N. European area centre I have mixed views on the whole affair.
There clearly was some piss-taking in regards to salary and overtime by numerous individuals over the previous years, however this seems to have been sanctioned at the time by AENA in order to 'get the job done' and therefore should not be used as a bargaining chip by either side in the current conflict.
I can not support the unilateral 'go on a sickie' that has taken place, but on the other hand I can clearly see that the controllers are being pushed in to a tight spot (purposefully, one would imagine) and I have to admire that they have had the collective balls to do something about it.
Things clearly need to change in respect to working hrs, salary and benefits - and im sorry to Spanish ATCOs but I think you probably had it too good, for too long and now theres going to be an adjustment - however the actions of the current government have stepped well beyond an acceptable 'line'.
The thing that sickens me the most is the threat of arrest and jail-time for failure to work - it leaves me saddened and frankly amazed. My sympathies to my Spanish colleagues. Before that statement is jumped on by 100 salivating pilots or armchair controllers take a minute to appreciate the gravity of what the government is proposing to do; you would potentially get less jail time for murdering someone!
Im quite confident that if the local government tried to pull such a stunt here, most controllers would be packing their suitcases never to be seen again.
I wish success to my Spanish colleagues in reaching a speedy and acceptable resolution to the whole mess and hope that the madness being proposed by your government subsides - I think that in order to move forward you do need to return to work, at least in the short term.
There clearly was some piss-taking in regards to salary and overtime by numerous individuals over the previous years, however this seems to have been sanctioned at the time by AENA in order to 'get the job done' and therefore should not be used as a bargaining chip by either side in the current conflict.
I can not support the unilateral 'go on a sickie' that has taken place, but on the other hand I can clearly see that the controllers are being pushed in to a tight spot (purposefully, one would imagine) and I have to admire that they have had the collective balls to do something about it.
Things clearly need to change in respect to working hrs, salary and benefits - and im sorry to Spanish ATCOs but I think you probably had it too good, for too long and now theres going to be an adjustment - however the actions of the current government have stepped well beyond an acceptable 'line'.
The thing that sickens me the most is the threat of arrest and jail-time for failure to work - it leaves me saddened and frankly amazed. My sympathies to my Spanish colleagues. Before that statement is jumped on by 100 salivating pilots or armchair controllers take a minute to appreciate the gravity of what the government is proposing to do; you would potentially get less jail time for murdering someone!
Im quite confident that if the local government tried to pull such a stunt here, most controllers would be packing their suitcases never to be seen again.
I wish success to my Spanish colleagues in reaching a speedy and acceptable resolution to the whole mess and hope that the madness being proposed by your government subsides - I think that in order to move forward you do need to return to work, at least in the short term.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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A quote from the UK Telegraph article
The controllers, who are the best paid in Europe with annual salaries of up to one million euros....
Spain to declare State of Alert over air traffic control strikes - Telegraph
Spain to declare State of Alert over air traffic control strikes - Telegraph
No Trafffic
Interesting, have just looked at radarvirtuel.com and there are no aircraft 
returns shown at all in Spanish airspace, but heavy trafffic going NW/SW in an off-shore corridor to the east of Spain. Or is it that RV.com are not getting any feeds from AENA?
returns shown at all in Spanish airspace, but heavy trafffic going NW/SW in an off-shore corridor to the east of Spain. Or is it that RV.com are not getting any feeds from AENA?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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The military isnīt controlling the traffic, in the new decree law passed yesterday the miliatry will obligate the controllers to work and if not off to jail! The ministers are meeting and if they declare a state of emergency the atcīs will have to by law work for up to 15 days under military "supervision".
Looks like Spain just became a step closer to becoming Venezuela.
Looks like Spain just became a step closer to becoming Venezuela.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: btw SAMAR and TOSPA
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Military takeover had happened before and killed 69 travellers on an Iberia DC-9 over Spain.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...d%20EC-BJC.pdf
The controllers have brought themselves, the government, 300.000 people who had organized their travel, booked hotels and spent money for their vacations, numberless flight crews stranded, into an indissoluble situation. Nothing will be as it was before.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...d%20EC-BJC.pdf
The controllers have brought themselves, the government, 300.000 people who had organized their travel, booked hotels and spent money for their vacations, numberless flight crews stranded, into an indissoluble situation. Nothing will be as it was before.
Join Date: Jan 2010
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The basis of all this is that the atcīs of Spain had to work 1670n hours plus 80 extras. Good no probs. But bad managemnet and no foresight by AENA or the government resulted in the atcīs finishing their hours(by law) for the year at the start of december. So the government makes a new increasing these hours by not including, sick leave, leave for a family death, training, holidays to name a few.
The next law they will pass is to obligate the controllers to work for 1 year without possibilty of resigning! this = slavery in my books......watch this space as it will be imminent!
The next law they will pass is to obligate the controllers to work for 1 year without possibilty of resigning! this = slavery in my books......watch this space as it will be imminent!
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Martial law in Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We're gonna see how will the spanish situation evolve.
We're gonna see how will the spanish situation evolve.
Military ATCOs
PILOTS - be careful what you wish for!!
There was a midair collision over western France c1973 when the military were called in when civil ATC were on strike!
Having been a Hercules nav and civil controller, both London Area and LHR ,it has never ceased to amaze me how little my pilot chums knew or understood about ATC.I also worked at Boscombe Down and the arrogance of many of the single-seat brigade had to be heard to be believed, and I say this as a father of a current airline pilot who is also ex-single seat and test pilot.( He is a bloody good bloke of whom I am immensely proud - my hero in fact -but my ATCO son and I keep him in touch with reality!).
To say sack them all is stupid! If BA sacked all its pilots, within weeks it could replace them with already trained correctly type-rated people.If NATS sacked all its ATCOs it would take years to replace them; who would train them? Each ATCO is only licensed to work at the unit at which he is based - there is not an equivalent to, say a B747-400 type rating.
There was a midair collision over western France c1973 when the military were called in when civil ATC were on strike!
Having been a Hercules nav and civil controller, both London Area and LHR ,it has never ceased to amaze me how little my pilot chums knew or understood about ATC.I also worked at Boscombe Down and the arrogance of many of the single-seat brigade had to be heard to be believed, and I say this as a father of a current airline pilot who is also ex-single seat and test pilot.( He is a bloody good bloke of whom I am immensely proud - my hero in fact -but my ATCO son and I keep him in touch with reality!).
To say sack them all is stupid! If BA sacked all its pilots, within weeks it could replace them with already trained correctly type-rated people.If NATS sacked all its ATCOs it would take years to replace them; who would train them? Each ATCO is only licensed to work at the unit at which he is based - there is not an equivalent to, say a B747-400 type rating.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Rod Eddington, I think it is you who is pathetic. You obviously have no comprehension whatsoever of what is at stake here. If AENA and the Spanish government were to succeed with their draconian and undemocratic methods, other countries could follow suit - not just in aviation but in all industries - and we would soon all be in the same boat, sorry make that slaveboat. Ultimately, the Spanish controllers are arguably fighting our war too.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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military controllers
even if miltary controllers could take over the microphone I would expect all the neighbouring countries controllers, especially highly unionised France and Italy and so forth, to refuse to work with strike breakers. I would almost expect these other controllers to walk off the job if they were somehow placed in a situation where they had to talk/work with military controllers..
G
G
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1973 Nantes
I have the highest resepect for military controllers but that does not mean that you can just drop them into someone else's job. The 1973 collision near Nantes comes to mind.
BBC ON THIS DAY | 5 | 1973: Mid-air collision kills 68
BBC ON THIS DAY | 5 | 1973: Mid-air collision kills 68