Spanish ATC

[jlms]

I would really like to shed some light on all this issue but it is getting somewhat late and need to catch some sleep. I'll try my best quickly though.

Please take note that we Spanish ATCO's are going through a very difficult moment. Our Government has thrown our T&C's down the drain (and we are not talking only about salaries here) and collective bargaining has been substituted since 05/02/10 by one ad hoc law after another that applies to us on an unprecedented scale in Spanish democratic history.

Toss in mass media giving only one side of the story and the fact that we are being used as scapegoats by our own ANSP in order to cover up the massive debt they have managed to get themselves into (due to heavy investments in the construction of unnecessary airports and infrastructures)... and one can start to picture how much fun it now is for us to walk into work.

And yes, believe it or not, we are *very* concerned about the safety issue surrounding this kind of work environment and conditions. Umpteen reports have been filed and we have written to every possible person and establishment you can think or come up with.

Thank you and I hope to have the pleasure of having you guys passing through one of my sectors soon.

[Bomber Harris]

Thanks jlms. Any chance direct the center fix

[ATC Watcher]

Thanks jlms. Any chance direct the center fix

A very good resume of the differences between the 2 professions.

My little finger is telling me that a controller strike is cooking in Spain, and if that materialize, the Governement has already declared it is planning to replace the controllers by the military. Again if that is done, and for those old enough here to remember 1973 and Nantes, more interesting times are probably coming in Spain.

I do not think this scenario is in Microsoft FS, so we might lose a lot of posters here.On the other hand a total lack of understanding how ATC work has so far never prevented anyone here to deliver a stong opinion on how it should be done .

[Sunnyjohn]

Unless I misread my Spanish, President Zapatero has publicly stated that he will not bring in the military.

Yesterday's Las Provincias printed an article stating that the Spanish ATCo's were considering up to four days strike action.

[kick the tires]

Jlms,

A nice balanced post; hope you slept well!

I enjoy flying into BCN - the controllers are generally unbiased and will not vector us around the skies too much to allow a spanish aircraft to get 3 miles in front of us! It happens of course, but not as much as Madrid!

The ground controllers especially earn my respect - they look out of the window before giving instructions, they help me when I take a wrong turn on the new taxiways and they speak english whenever there is a deconfliction between us and another spanish aircraft. Again, sadly not the case in Madrid.

But thats how respect is earned; a professional job done in a professional manner. Such people will get my support in disputes such as this.

[Nightstop]

Total panic in the voice of a MAD GND Controller the other day when an inbound taxying aircraft requested an ambulance urgently. Clearly overloaded and unable to cope with the ambulance request and controlling at the same time, his R/T became rude and abrupt .

[Bomber Harris]

Lighten up ATC W. Have a go at the twisted buggers here, not the sarcastic buggers. Got to be room for a cheeky comment even in the most sombre situations.

[McNulty]

Total panic in the voice of a MAD GND Controller the other day when an inbound taxying aircraft requested an ambulance urgently. Clearly overloaded and unable to cope with the ambulance request and controlling at the same time, his R/T became rude and abrupt .

It's worrying - ground controllers in Mad are hopelessly incompetent buffoons during normal ops, who only seem to concentrate on giving spanish aircraft priority....when there is something abnormal/an emergency, these are not the people you want to have dealing with it.

[bobwi]

who only seem to concentrate on giving spanish aircraft priority....

I don't think they do that anymore. I have been cleared surprisingly before Spanish airlines a few times recently. Also I notice that Iberia is complaining much more over the radio about ATC than they used to do. Sometimes refering to the fact that ATC seems to forget that they are the "national".

A good example in Madrid the other day. We arrived at the holding point where an Iberia was already waiting. We were cleared to line up. Iberia than questioned the controlers about what slot time we had. It turned out that our slot was 3 minutes after theirs!!! Upon hearing this the Iberia pilot went through the rooth!!

[McNulty]

I dunno mate, my experience in the last week in Madrid, like always, is that ridiculous priority is given to Spanish airlines....the height of unprofessionalism and the level of frustration it builds up in the flight deck is a threat.

[kick the tires]

We had to laugh today, going out to 36R, we had the usual 6 frequency changes from clearance to tower.

I kid you not, EVERY one said 'station calling' in response to our check in!!!!! Its sad but so so funny!

[Cernicalo]

Hello kick the tires,

Remember, with the new Royal Decree they are working 29 shifts in 30 days, This is, from June, in 60 days just 3 or 4 days off. No more. 50-55 hours per week, with night shifts. Discount on salaries around 70% ¡70%!. Sick days and hollidays are not being payed. Not a single weekend off.

Only one word: Mobbing.

I would say as well, Station calling, pleeeease, say again

I am quite embarrased with the position of our fellow pilots, only kicking and beating controllers. I would ask for a little bit of comprension, very bad times for the Spanish controllers. Next one could be you.

Welcome Neoliberalism.

[ant1]

the government have decided that they be checked by social security GPs (rather than their own doctors), who found no grounds to justify a medical leave on something like 80% of the cases.

LH2, you really don't have a clue, do you? As I previously said to another poster, don't buy into the first story you hear.

In Spain only a Social Security doctor can send you home so they were sent home by SS doctors.

The government put pressure on those doctors (just like some companies put pressure on us on fuel issues, etc.) to revoke their decisions. After that, the Gov went on saying that if they could not stand the pressure maybe they should have their medical revoked. Cinism at its best.

Dusthog, the full approach at night is a consequence of the "Italian sentence to jail" (again do your homework). After that sentence the concerned Spanish ATCO's have tried to get -to no avail- a written answer on whether they are allowed to give visuals at night from the Spanish authorities.

That night we lowered ourselves to a level of Spanish ATC and I´m not proud over it.

I agree with you, you shouldn't be proud. I don't agree though that you lowered yourselves to the level of Spanish ATC. In Spain there's a saying: each one performs to his own standards (the ones that reflect who they actually are).

Mc Nutty, the biggest buffon around here is you but I guess it takes all kinds to make a world.

[andrijander]

Strike!

Surprised nobody said anything as yet but there it goes.

92% of the controllers today voted (92% of 2036 active duty ones).

98% of them (1800 more or less) voted to strike. Dates not decided.


Good luck.

[Chesty Morgan]

Spanish air traffic controllers to strike | World news | The Guardian

18th August.

At last some spine.

[kick the tires]

Question for the Spanish ATCO's - are the salary figures quoted in Chesty's link correct?

[DFC]

I just looked at the video posted previously and have to say that I am not surprised.

Not long ago we were in the cruise over Spain and we could not get a response on the assigned frequency where we had previously established comms.

Thinking we had missed a call, gone out of range or had a comms failure, I asked my colleague to continue making calls while I called on 121.5.

Imagine my surprise when in the background of the "Station Calling Station Calling" I could hear my colleague calling.

5 seconds later all was normal and they could suddenly hear us again - Station Calling !!

perhaps there was a bun fight going on like the one on the video.

[calcagafo]

Salary figures

Negative!!

I can only tell you about Barcelona, but with ten years experience in BCN ACC I made close to 120.000 with the basic hours(1200) plus around 400 extra ones. I was one of the better paid, most of my partners never did an extra hour and they earned around 80.000.

That was last year, this year they are paying all of us around 60000 for 1750 hours.

Still, the money is not the issue, most of us are having only 3 or 4 days off each month, our holidays have been cancelled, people on sick leave taking medication non compatible with our job have been forced to go back to work and so on.

Best regards

[His dudeness]

most of us are having only 3 or 4 days off each month, our holidays have been cancelled, people on sick leave taking medication non compatible with our job have been forced to go back to work and so on.

This has to be stopped. Dangerous. To launch a strike because of such problems is right.

[kick the tires]

totally agree, days off are essential to recover and! revitalise!

What a shame the support from a large portion of the pilots is diminished by their experiences with the ATC in Madrid and indeed the assertion that we are all talking and there is no such thing as discrimination between nations aircraft!