job cuts
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job cuts
Hi My son is a trainee atc at Swanwick, in the present climate there is the constant fear of job cuts. He has already been interviewed for his own job and I am fearful that when he was re located to Swanwick he did not move house, he lives some 50 odd miles from the site. Is this likely to be a factor? thank you
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being 50 miles from site will not be a factor, there are still people living in the London area.
I very much doubt that they will be making trainees redundant as we're still short.
I very much doubt that they will be making trainees redundant as we're still short.
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only 30-40% of trainees that came through from the college went on to become valid ATCOs
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NATS are currently actively recruiting and training new ATCOs. I'd have thought that if jobs needed to go the first thing they would do would be to put a hold on recruitment rather than axe current ATCOs, the fact that they haven't done this would suggest that jobs are currently quite safe. On top of which I hear that a lot of units are currently understaffed (they have enough staff to be safely meet watch manning requirements, but not necessarily as many as watch managers would like or feel comfortable with), which would make additional staffing cuts impossible due to safety limitations.
On the other hand if your son is an ATSA rather than an ATCO (a very different role) as Phantomlurker has speculated then the issue could be very different....
On the other hand if your son is an ATSA rather than an ATCO (a very different role) as Phantomlurker has speculated then the issue could be very different....
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<<I wonder how many of the people involved in initially selecting the 60-70% of failures are still employed by NATS ? Is there a chop rate for Instructors - i.e. if only x% of the course pass @ Hurn , are they dumped too ? >>
Why should they be? If you continue that argument you end up with simulator instructors and watche training officers being "dumped" too.
I spent 35+ years on and off training controllers and it is frequently impossible to determine if someone is going to validate until they start live training. I've seen trainees who have done well at the College and passed the exams with flying colours subsequently fail the live training. At one time the failure rate at Heathrow was about 80%. Such is ATC and it has little to do with the instructors.
Why should they be? If you continue that argument you end up with simulator instructors and watche training officers being "dumped" too.
I spent 35+ years on and off training controllers and it is frequently impossible to determine if someone is going to validate until they start live training. I've seen trainees who have done well at the College and passed the exams with flying colours subsequently fail the live training. At one time the failure rate at Heathrow was about 80%. Such is ATC and it has little to do with the instructors.
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HD
Not only that, but people who are doing well, passing through level checks in good time etc, suddenly and with no ready explanation, stop making progress.
Also, the stragglers can surprise too, putting on a late dash to validation.
One for the HF boys and girls to explain.....
Not only that, but people who are doing well, passing through level checks in good time etc, suddenly and with no ready explanation, stop making progress.
Also, the stragglers can surprise too, putting on a late dash to validation.
One for the HF boys and girls to explain.....
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Loki..... See it all, unfortunately, and there seems to be no answer. Saw a couple of controllers who had done very well at the College totally freeze on the simulator at WD and never got as far as the ops room. Apart from all the fancy tests they do nowadays, there are many other factors in the run up to validation which can raise problems.
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I have often wondered about whether things come to a head at the unit because during simulator training it's all a video game. Then it hits home that it's real aeroplanes with real lives at stake and you're the one who's responsible and it takes massive confidence and a gigantic ego to know, with absolute certainty, that you're the one who can do it.
Just my thoughts.
BD
Just my thoughts.
BD
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BD is talking from experience gained as an ATCO and probably an OJTI (sorry M, I don't know your full resume)... I might sometimes disagree with him with regards to certain outcomes of projects etc, but I always do so respecting that he has an extensive controlling background.
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I could not help but view this post with some bemusement. The originator of this post comes on here as a father concerned about the future of his sons career and this enquiry is then extended to the possibility that this young man is an employee of the atsa grade. The raison d etre of this concerned father post was lost within five replies as the subject changed to employees of the atco grade, how great they are and their training regime.
In NATS there is a probability that many hundreds of your colleagues will lose their jobs voluntarily or otherwise, with serious financial, emotional, spiritual, and professional consequences that that situation entails. The possibility of people losing their homes due to being unable to pay the mortgage, grocery bills, utility bills, school fees, relationships breaking up due to the strain and possibly even worse.
I sometimes wonder if such breathtaking arrogance, egocentric, self absorbed, and selfish behaviour is a prerequisite for selection as an atco?
Tony Fallows
Cheshire
In NATS there is a probability that many hundreds of your colleagues will lose their jobs voluntarily or otherwise, with serious financial, emotional, spiritual, and professional consequences that that situation entails. The possibility of people losing their homes due to being unable to pay the mortgage, grocery bills, utility bills, school fees, relationships breaking up due to the strain and possibly even worse.
I sometimes wonder if such breathtaking arrogance, egocentric, self absorbed, and selfish behaviour is a prerequisite for selection as an atco?
Tony Fallows
Cheshire
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BD
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it takes massive confidence and a gigantic ego to know, with absolute certainty, that you're the one who can do it.
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In reply to the original poster;
I had heard rumour that ATSA roles within Swanwick were being axed, I believe with the eventual goal of all such posts being eliminated. As I understand it this is more to do with the ATSA role becoming less necessary due to new technology than it is to do with the economic climate. Perhaps someone who currently works there has a more detailed insight and/or time frame?
I can't imagine the location of your son's home will have a significant bearing unless it is having a detrimental effect on his work (i.e. turning up late for work, being tired due to long periods of travel etc.)
There will still be ATSA positions at many airfields (both inside and outside NATS) after the Swanwick positions are gone, but I believe vacancies are currently few and far between as well as being highly competative.
Sorry the outlook is a little bleak :/
I had heard rumour that ATSA roles within Swanwick were being axed, I believe with the eventual goal of all such posts being eliminated. As I understand it this is more to do with the ATSA role becoming less necessary due to new technology than it is to do with the economic climate. Perhaps someone who currently works there has a more detailed insight and/or time frame?
I can't imagine the location of your son's home will have a significant bearing unless it is having a detrimental effect on his work (i.e. turning up late for work, being tired due to long periods of travel etc.)
There will still be ATSA positions at many airfields (both inside and outside NATS) after the Swanwick positions are gone, but I believe vacancies are currently few and far between as well as being highly competative.
Sorry the outlook is a little bleak :/
Beady Eye
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You write as if it's a bad thing but I don't know of a better way to express the necessary personal qualities required to do a job where you have the potential to very quickly, and through a simple mistake, kill 100's of people. This is my personal opinion and from personal experience all ATCOs, not restricted to just NATS.
BD
Q. What the similarity between a pilot and an ATCO?
A. If a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies. If an ATCO makes a mistake the pilot dies.
BD
Q. What the similarity between a pilot and an ATCO?
A. If a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies. If an ATCO makes a mistake the pilot dies.
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In reply to the original poster;
I had heard rumour that ATSA roles within Swanwick were being axed, I believe with the eventual goal of all such posts being eliminated. As I understand it this is more to do with the ATSA role becoming less necessary due to new technology than it is to do with the economic climate.
I had heard rumour that ATSA roles within Swanwick were being axed, I believe with the eventual goal of all such posts being eliminated. As I understand it this is more to do with the ATSA role becoming less necessary due to new technology than it is to do with the economic climate.
There is also an agreement between management and unions (on the company intranet) that there will be no compulsory redundancies without something serious happening to the economy.
BD
