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Kids controlling at JFK

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Kids controlling at JFK

Old 3rd Mar 2010, 11:27
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Kids controlling at JFK

Lead story on NBC Today is two controllers at JFK in the sh1t for allowing a little child to give take-off clearance etc to departing flights.

Last edited by canard68; 3rd Mar 2010 at 15:38.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 12:00
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Possibly the clearest instructions given at JFK in the whole day
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 12:44
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Hi Guys,

I was wondering when there would be a post about this sooner!

Am a fan of the dude who brought the kid up and gave him a "taste" of the action.

I am sure it inspired him. Good on him too!

Read what the rest have to say on this post here:

Child directs airplanes over radio transmissions at JFK airport

Now please tell me he didn't get fired over this.

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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 14:28
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also on R&N

to be fair it was one kid and seems to be under close supervision
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 15:19
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Too bad that the kid is going to cost the loss of his dad's career.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 15:22
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happenesd last month

JFK Airport: Boy Directs Air Traffic Control, Caught on Tape - ABC News

In R&N it seems to be developing into a controller bashing session
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 15:29
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I was only 19 when I validated in Mil Area Radar - does that classify me as a kid controlling
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 16:15
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BBC News - New York airport jets 'directed by child'
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 17:25
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Not the cleverest thing to do, iMO.

It makes you wonder what Management disciplines are in force. I know it's "sort of cute" but it's staggeringly unprofessional. Or at least it would have been in my day.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 17:31
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Too bad that the kid is going to cost the loss of his dad's career.
I think it may be fairer to say the chap has cost himself his own career. I doubt the child was acting on his own volition.

It's staggeringly unprofessional. Or at least it would have been in my day.
Oh, I think it still is. Amusing, but also astonishing!
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:05
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I'm sure I'll get some responses to this from over the pond, but isn't this just a rather poorly judged extension of the Americans' penchant for folksy, non-standard, and non-ICAO compliant RT? When I've flown there it's been really hard to make the switch from the folksy to the
properly professional (when that happens). Little things like the US habit of always saying "twelve sixty four" instead of the ICAO standard "one two six four" are a perennial irritation over here (Europe) too.

Having said that, the US has the best ATC system in the world in terms of the incident rate per 10,000 hrs.

I am reminded of the TV documentary some years ago where a bearded, lumberjack-shirted ground controller at JFK was interviewed on camera WHILE CONTROLLING IN LVPs, speaking to camera in between instructing taxi-ing aircraft which were lost in the fog and didn't know where they were. Amazing! Sacking offence in the UK for sure.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:24
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"Twelve sixty four" is perfectly acceptable in the US. US still uses FAA Order 7110.65S, 2-4-20a and not the ICAO doc. you mentioned. It is a habit as it's a requirement.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:38
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Vector 361 - good news for the "FAA Order 7110.65S, 2-4-20a and not the ICAO doc".

International has never been a strong point for you guys, has it? How is the Rest of the Planet supposed to cope when they fly into US airspace?
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:38
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At the end of the day, when a trainee first turns up and knows nothing about what they do, they plug in with an instructor and the instructor tells them everything to say. Aside from an age gap, what's the difference?
If you know about how ATC and ATC training works, then you know there is no difference. If you don't know this, then you are not qualified to comment on this subject. I can assure you that some brand new trainees are just as green as this kid, so it was not an issue.

Politically, it may seem a less-than-great idea (if nothing else other than knowing how ignorant and dramatic the media are) but in terms of pure fact, it's a non-event. That should be the end of discussion.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:25
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what's the difference?
- you seriously need to ask that? As far as the UK is concerned, no Trainee talks on the r/t until they've successfully completed a period of rating training involving simulator work & r/t training, amongst a whole host of other objectives; that simulated r/t time can be anywhere up to 100 hours. That is followed by what ever is encompassed in the UTP. This may, if required, include an additional period of simulator training - that depends on the unit requirement, but can be another 100 hours. Only then will they go live with an OJTI - hardly the same as here.
But, you already know that, don't you?
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:35
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Well, at least this had a happier ending than the pilot who let his kid fly the plane. Aeroflot Flight 593 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the ATC kid was playing with this.....

....then started pestering dad about having a go at the "real thing"?

The solution is simple: no more toys. It gives the little buggars ideas.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:57
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Looks like a previous post sums it up quite nicely.

100's of hours of training, loads of certificates before someone on the ground can speak to a skygod over a radio. And that's under the close personal supervision of a dedicated experienced professional personal trainer.

Persoanlly I like the other comment about the lowest incident rates from NorthSouth. Gurucube sums it up as well.

Anyway didn't those amerrycans invent aviation anyway?
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 21:46
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It has been reported that a dad (JFK ATC controller) took his kid into control and allowed him/her to pass instructions to ac. Crime of the century according to informed US sources.

Is it any different to CO/headmaster for a day or not. The pilots seemed pretty cool about the situation but is this a fuss about nothing (my call) or a serious breach of flight safety?
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 22:02
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Nothing in the least bit wrong
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 22:16
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Listen to tape. Kid enjoyed it. Pilots definitely enjoyed it.

In a perfect world, FAA would tell him 'don't do it again without permission" and then go off to worry about things like young adults commuting from California to NJ to fly in the winter with a pilot who flunked several checkrides and didn't know stall recovery.

Too bad we live SO far from a perfect world.
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