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No landing clearance on short final

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No landing clearance on short final

Old 18th Dec 2009, 12:16
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re 'land after' , there is a distance criteria which must be met
You are talking about the 'After The Landing' Procedure. 'Land After' is something different. Both are described here on page GEN 3-3-6
Talkdownman is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2009, 15:50
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Thanks for the reference Talkdown man, apparently LHR controllers do have available procedures (albeit during DAY and VMC) that are not being utilized

3.8.3 Land after Procedure
3.8.3.1 Normally, only one aircraft is permitted to land or take-off on the runway-in-use at any one time. However, when the traffic
sequence is two successive landing aircraft, the second one may be allowed to land before the first one has cleared the runway-in-use,
providing:
a. The runway is long enough;
b. it is during daylight hours;
c. the second aircraft will be able to see the first aircraft clearly and continuously until it is clear of the runway;
d. the second aircraft has been warned.
ATC will provide this warning by issuing the second aircraft with the instruction 'land after ....... (first aircraft type)' in place of the
usual instruction 'Cleared to land'. Responsibility for ensuring adequate separation between the two aircraft rests with the pilot of
the second aircraft.
3.8.4 Special Landing Procedures at London Heathrow, London Gatwick and London Stansted Airports
d. When issuing a landing clearance following the application of these procedures ATC will issue the second aircraft with the
following instructions:
London Heathrow and London Gatwick
....... (call sign) ....... after the landing/departing ....... (Aircraft Type) cleared to land Runway ....... (Designator).London Stansted
....... (call sign) ....... after the departing ....... (Aircraft Type) cleared to land Runway ........ (Designator).
Now why are they not being used? In over 20 years of flying into LHR I have never heard it used.
oceancrosser is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2009, 18:12
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Both procedures were in frequent use during my time there ('86-'03), 'Land After' less so because management worried about abrogating 'Duty of Care' when the responsibility was transferred to the cockpit.
Talkdownman is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2009, 20:27
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
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NATS have withdrawn the use of "after the landing....." at Heathrow.
Gonzo is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2009, 21:31
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Has nats provided a reason why?
Talkdownman is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2009, 22:40
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark
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Responding to the original post: Nada landing clearance, nada landing. End of story. Wondering why even being discussed.
Gargleblaster is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2009, 07:47
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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To talkdownman
I was talking about the procedure you referenced i.e. the one where a vis assessment of distance available either permits or precludes the 'land after'. With ref to the original question, if a pilot is uncomfortable continuing for so long without the landing clearance, then he/she must go around.I may sound harsh and probably would hope they don't, however, that is their responsibility and can't be blamed on the ATCO, being given a clearance that is not safe can be.
GunkyTom is offline  

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