Continuous Descent Approach into CDG.... I don't think so!
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty - On secondment
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Continuous Descent Approach into CDG.... I don't think so!
Can anyone explain why STARs into Paris descend you so early and then have you flying at low level for 40/50 miles before descending on the glide?
I ask out of curiosity as an increasing number of countries are now adopting Continuous Descent Approaches .
I ask out of curiosity as an increasing number of countries are now adopting Continuous Descent Approaches .
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Paris
Age: 43
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Paris Orly is making an experiment with continuous descent approach for some arrivals from south west but it concerns only one IAF when traffic allows it...
In CDG they are not making it yet because they have much more traffic and when they have to separate arrivals and departures they have to impose level restrictions very early in order to create vertical separation easily.
In CDG they are not making it yet because they have much more traffic and when they have to separate arrivals and departures they have to impose level restrictions very early in order to create vertical separation easily.
The other important thing to remember is that CDG is the main training base for air traffic controllers in France, so very often you're talking to a student controller who has a supervisor looking over his/her shoulder. They get a slap on the wrist for allowing deviations from STARs and SIDs (both routing, altitude and speed). We all know the 'letterboxes' in the sky around CDG where you have to be at a certain altitude and speed.
Of course arrivals and departures have to be deconflicted, but the way they do it in CDG is very unsophisticated. You burn tons of fuel crawling around at low altitude, in level flight and being vectored out east to 30NM before finally being turned onto the LOC for the westerly runways.
I would rather hold at higher levels & lower speeds and then descend for a short vectoring, this would save enormous amounts of fuel. Since the French are convinced that their ways are best they can't be bothered to think about running their ATC more efficiently. They will boast that you almost never have to hold going in to CDG (and they don't see the point that d*cking around at low altitude during the inevitable scenic flight around northeastern France is about the same, but costs more fuel).
CDAs require restructuring of arrival and departure routes, and usually the French will oppose any kind of change...
Of course arrivals and departures have to be deconflicted, but the way they do it in CDG is very unsophisticated. You burn tons of fuel crawling around at low altitude, in level flight and being vectored out east to 30NM before finally being turned onto the LOC for the westerly runways.
I would rather hold at higher levels & lower speeds and then descend for a short vectoring, this would save enormous amounts of fuel. Since the French are convinced that their ways are best they can't be bothered to think about running their ATC more efficiently. They will boast that you almost never have to hold going in to CDG (and they don't see the point that d*cking around at low altitude during the inevitable scenic flight around northeastern France is about the same, but costs more fuel).
CDAs require restructuring of arrival and departure routes, and usually the French will oppose any kind of change...
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hogwarts
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Approaches to LBG for ILS27 are even worse. A 30nm run in at 2000' is about the norm. You cross just under CDG final traffic on base and roughly parallel it on final. Spacing from VFR traffic below can be an issue. A plog may estimate say 40min from London but on average it takes 55min and a lot more fuel than than the plog. The plog goes to the transition at Mokno/Merue or whatever and then DCT.
Continuous descent is not possible here, but as a concept it should be pushed hard though. This would hopefully make the French change the procedures there and save us all time, fuel and noise for people on the ground.
D
Continuous descent is not possible here, but as a concept it should be pushed hard though. This would hopefully make the French change the procedures there and save us all time, fuel and noise for people on the ground.
D
