UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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10W - I have heard this afternoon that an AAVA agreement is back in place, with a few changes to the previous and is called an "interim agreement", this is to cover the period until the result of the ballot is known. The changes involve the number of days an individual is able to do, times of the shifts,and the withdrawal of the half AAVAs.
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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Thanks guys, why am I not surprised ? 
The original was pulled because of numerous flagrant breaches of the agreement by NATS Management. What exactly have they promised the BEC to give them yet another try at adhering to it ?
The original was pulled because of numerous flagrant breaches of the agreement by NATS Management. What exactly have they promised the BEC to give them yet another try at adhering to it ?
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10w et al, Well said,
For the weak-minded amongst us, go with the recommendation, for the rest of us,let's give OUR Union a bargaining tool, by saying no.
I don't suppose there is any chance of having a unit by unit breakdown of the voting, just to confirm or otherwise, the perception of Band 5 shagging everyone else, purely for self interest.
For the weak-minded amongst us, go with the recommendation, for the rest of us,let's give OUR Union a bargaining tool, by saying no.
I don't suppose there is any chance of having a unit by unit breakdown of the voting, just to confirm or otherwise, the perception of Band 5 shagging everyone else, purely for self interest.
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Personally I think what's on the cards is a pretty good offer for the ATCO's, but maybe I'm still too enthusiastic about it all being someone who's bottom of the ATCO payscale?
However, out of principle, I'll be voting NO on the basis that a payrise should be given to ALL in NATS and not just for the ATCO's!! Pretty disgraceful if you ask me!
However, out of principle, I'll be voting NO on the basis that a payrise should be given to ALL in NATS and not just for the ATCO's!! Pretty disgraceful if you ask me!
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Rpi
There are a lot of it's NOT 10.2%s on here.
True.
But the suggestion it will be hugely different.
Unlikely.
Next years RPI increase is this coming Augusts RPI. As in 4 months time. RPI currently 5.3%. Forecast for August 4.9%.
True.
But the suggestion it will be hugely different.
Unlikely.
Next years RPI increase is this coming Augusts RPI. As in 4 months time. RPI currently 5.3%. Forecast for August 4.9%.
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Assuming 5.2% in year 1 and 5% on base salary only in year 2 with no extra duties (OJTI/LCE etc)
ATCO2 at top of Band 4, overall rise = 10.1%
ATCO on base salary of £50,000, overall rise = 9.93%
ATCO on base salary of £35,000, overall rise = 9.74%
If the second year HAD been on allowances as well that would have been an overall rise of 10.46%
ATCO2 at top of Band 4, overall rise = 10.1%
ATCO on base salary of £50,000, overall rise = 9.93%
ATCO on base salary of £35,000, overall rise = 9.74%
If the second year HAD been on allowances as well that would have been an overall rise of 10.46%
Last edited by The Fat Controller; 22nd Apr 2011 at 17:39. Reason: Added info
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A lot of negative responses on here, which doesn't seem to reflect the reaction at work today. 5.2% this year is more than anyone actually expected and RPI next year isn't to be sniffed at either. Other than Met observations at airports (which will be voted on by those effected) there aren't any real strings attached to this. Prospect have done well to up an offer from 2 to 5.2%. Anyone who thinks this isn't a good increase needs to rejoin the real world.
As for the assistants, well they will get to decide when they vote for themselves, although I'd be very surprised if they voted no.
The AAVA agreement may be a permanent feature but the AAVA rate will increase when controllers decide their days off are more valuable.
Prospect members will accept this offer by a landslide.
As for the assistants, well they will get to decide when they vote for themselves, although I'd be very surprised if they voted no.
The AAVA agreement may be a permanent feature but the AAVA rate will increase when controllers decide their days off are more valuable.
Prospect members will accept this offer by a landslide.
Disappointed
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Krait, ever thought of a career in spin?
The deal is not quite as simplistic a 10.2% rise. Please stop spouting the spin; to paraphrase Ed the Red - it's hurting and it isn't working - so stop.
The deal is not quite as simplistic a 10.2% rise. Please stop spouting the spin; to paraphrase Ed the Red - it's hurting and it isn't working - so stop.
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Spin
Spin? It's not spin. As I said it won't be exactly 10.2 but it won't be far off.
I know it's a rumor site but there is more crap posted than rumor. Just trying to cut some of it. Losing battle no doubt. But for now it's amusing me. General feeling amongst the real people from my NERL circus has been good. But we will see. It is now in the hands of the members.
I know it's a rumor site but there is more crap posted than rumor. Just trying to cut some of it. Losing battle no doubt. But for now it's amusing me. General feeling amongst the real people from my NERL circus has been good. But we will see. It is now in the hands of the members.
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It would be good to see PCS give a big NO vote...that will prove at least one of our union's has balls and prepaired to fight for a better future.....too many people only think of the present and their own self interest and less of the future!!
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I am not entirely sure that Prospect members will accept this by a Landslide, TCU.
Krait, really? The general feeling i have been getting from my fellow NERL colleagues is that whilst it is a half decent offer, they are disgusted by the fact that we have been offered more than the ATSA's and engineers, but take out the terms and conditions and is it really a half decent offer? Krait, you seem to be good at putting a positive spin on the figures.... tell us just exactly how much of a rise we will get if we take out all the terms and conditions they are proposing! I doubt it will be all that much.
It really surprises me the lack of passion, the lack of self-respect, the lack of pride but above all THE LACK OF TEAM SPIRIT some of you guys have on here. We really do need to stick together, but the prospect of an offer of 1% more cash and the greedy ATCOs have divided the workforce. Yes, it is management who set the wheels in motion, but it is always the greedy ATCO's that actually cause the division.
Sometimes, it makes me damn bloody ashamed to be an ATCO. There is no fight, no fire. I used to think that the ATCOs were a strong group of formidable people, who faced with anything would stay strong, stick together and fight. We now seem to be in an era where we are nothing but wimps. This is our first published offer, management can improve on it! Where was the actual publication saying that they had offered 2%? Propaganda to make you all believe how good our offer now is, so then the weak minded in you will vote it through, with little regard for the people who fix the radars/ tels or people who pass estimates or put out the strips, people who run around at our beck and call..... people, who, without them, we could not do our jobs!
I can now only hope that the conversations i have had with people, are an indication of actual reality, in that people are not happy with this, and will vote no.
Krait, really? The general feeling i have been getting from my fellow NERL colleagues is that whilst it is a half decent offer, they are disgusted by the fact that we have been offered more than the ATSA's and engineers, but take out the terms and conditions and is it really a half decent offer? Krait, you seem to be good at putting a positive spin on the figures.... tell us just exactly how much of a rise we will get if we take out all the terms and conditions they are proposing! I doubt it will be all that much.
It really surprises me the lack of passion, the lack of self-respect, the lack of pride but above all THE LACK OF TEAM SPIRIT some of you guys have on here. We really do need to stick together, but the prospect of an offer of 1% more cash and the greedy ATCOs have divided the workforce. Yes, it is management who set the wheels in motion, but it is always the greedy ATCO's that actually cause the division.
Sometimes, it makes me damn bloody ashamed to be an ATCO. There is no fight, no fire. I used to think that the ATCOs were a strong group of formidable people, who faced with anything would stay strong, stick together and fight. We now seem to be in an era where we are nothing but wimps. This is our first published offer, management can improve on it! Where was the actual publication saying that they had offered 2%? Propaganda to make you all believe how good our offer now is, so then the weak minded in you will vote it through, with little regard for the people who fix the radars/ tels or people who pass estimates or put out the strips, people who run around at our beck and call..... people, who, without them, we could not do our jobs!
I can now only hope that the conversations i have had with people, are an indication of actual reality, in that people are not happy with this, and will vote no.
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SOTB - I agree with everything you are saying, plus the sentiment.
One minor point fyi... the 2% pay offer was communicated to all employees by the NTUS on 28th Feb 2011. It states:
"The current offer on the table to the NTUS remains unchanged at 2% although there have been indications that this would be improved on delivery of numerous cost savings and changes to current terms and conditions of employment."
I think that this may have been the final core offer, after which management were only wanting to hold sectional meetings - which the negotiating teams [eventually] accepted.
My previous post was somewhat cynical. However, if it stokes up the fire a little then maybe I'll have helped.
I was hoping that the ATCO offer from management would not be recommended by the ATCO branch BEC. I was greatly dissappointed to see that they had instead recommended it. This looks like the first nail in the coffin.
How can they be doing this when the offer is plainly not a good one???
A reduction in the ATCO Ts&Cs for an increase in line with the cost of living!!
A 'good' offer would be an increase in line with the cost of living without any strings.
Hopefully all three branches can stick together under the NTUS for future negotiations.
One minor point fyi... the 2% pay offer was communicated to all employees by the NTUS on 28th Feb 2011. It states:
"The current offer on the table to the NTUS remains unchanged at 2% although there have been indications that this would be improved on delivery of numerous cost savings and changes to current terms and conditions of employment."
I think that this may have been the final core offer, after which management were only wanting to hold sectional meetings - which the negotiating teams [eventually] accepted.
My previous post was somewhat cynical. However, if it stokes up the fire a little then maybe I'll have helped.
I was hoping that the ATCO offer from management would not be recommended by the ATCO branch BEC. I was greatly dissappointed to see that they had instead recommended it. This looks like the first nail in the coffin.
How can they be doing this when the offer is plainly not a good one???
A reduction in the ATCO Ts&Cs for an increase in line with the cost of living!!
A 'good' offer would be an increase in line with the cost of living without any strings.
Hopefully all three branches can stick together under the NTUS for future negotiations.
Last edited by RPIplus1; 23rd Apr 2011 at 08:30.
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RPIplus1 - Thanks for the correction
Ok, so there was an offer of 2% made, and the union rejected it, too bloody right. And yes, i would agree that had the offer that we have now, have come with no strings, then yes, it would be a good offer. However, it has come with strings, and it has come at a higher offer than our colleagues, so all in all, it will be a resounding NO from me (if anyone had not guessed this by now!), and i agree, that i was very surprised that the union had recommended this. Just another example of the union eating out of managements pocket. At the point where management started attaching strings, the union should have asked for higher. At the point where it became clear there were going to be separate deals, the union should have said no! I believe that the initial offer of 2% was made so that we would get to the point now where we are being offered 5.2% and straight away people would vote yes as it seems like such a good deal in comparison, forget about all the terms and conditions. Management are very good at manipulating their weak minded workforce, and hey presto, here we are with people spouting off about how good an offer it is! Exactly what the suits were hoping for
Ok, so there was an offer of 2% made, and the union rejected it, too bloody right. And yes, i would agree that had the offer that we have now, have come with no strings, then yes, it would be a good offer. However, it has come with strings, and it has come at a higher offer than our colleagues, so all in all, it will be a resounding NO from me (if anyone had not guessed this by now!), and i agree, that i was very surprised that the union had recommended this. Just another example of the union eating out of managements pocket. At the point where management started attaching strings, the union should have asked for higher. At the point where it became clear there were going to be separate deals, the union should have said no! I believe that the initial offer of 2% was made so that we would get to the point now where we are being offered 5.2% and straight away people would vote yes as it seems like such a good deal in comparison, forget about all the terms and conditions. Management are very good at manipulating their weak minded workforce, and hey presto, here we are with people spouting off about how good an offer it is! Exactly what the suits were hoping for
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What i would like to know from prospect is what is the pay rise on offer for nsl controllers.
We were told that they would not accept any difference in pay for nerl and nsl. Also only those units carrying out met will get the extra % pay rise as recompense.
So is nsl being offered 3% as core pay and 2% for met, or 5% and cock all for the met? Either way we have been blatantly lied to by the BEC. It really winds me up reading the few nerl controllers being self centered on here and stating this is a good deal for them and bugger anyone else. I would like to see a separate union for nsl and nerl as I am fed up with getting the scraps of any deal every single time. The union always looks after the big boys, mainly because the BEC is made up of nerl or band 5 controllers, and the minority are forever trodden on.
I can only hope that the unhappiness with the AAVA agreement sinks this deal. There will be units in nsl that will be voting on the met duties who will not have to carry out those duties, heathrow being one of them.
This is the final nail in the atsa coffin at the airports and a vital source of information, safety net, good friends and an essential part of the air traffic team will be lost forever.
We were told that they would not accept any difference in pay for nerl and nsl. Also only those units carrying out met will get the extra % pay rise as recompense.
So is nsl being offered 3% as core pay and 2% for met, or 5% and cock all for the met? Either way we have been blatantly lied to by the BEC. It really winds me up reading the few nerl controllers being self centered on here and stating this is a good deal for them and bugger anyone else. I would like to see a separate union for nsl and nerl as I am fed up with getting the scraps of any deal every single time. The union always looks after the big boys, mainly because the BEC is made up of nerl or band 5 controllers, and the minority are forever trodden on.
I can only hope that the unhappiness with the AAVA agreement sinks this deal. There will be units in nsl that will be voting on the met duties who will not have to carry out those duties, heathrow being one of them.
This is the final nail in the atsa coffin at the airports and a vital source of information, safety net, good friends and an essential part of the air traffic team will be lost forever.
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RPI = Cost of living indicator?
'The Retail Prices Index (RPI) is the most familiar general purpose domestic measure of inflation in the United Kingdom.'
I'm a bit confused here! Am I right in thinking that if we takeaway the 2xRPI increases, then the pay rise in real terms over 2 years is actually 0.5% far all the add on stuff from a company performing well dishing out dividends?
I'm a bit confused here! Am I right in thinking that if we takeaway the 2xRPI increases, then the pay rise in real terms over 2 years is actually 0.5% far all the add on stuff from a company performing well dishing out dividends?
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GM WAN 2 BE afraid you are wrong. It'll be less than that since as had been said year 2 is below RPI since allowances not included so assuming you're watch keeping shift pay won't gi up with cost of living. And we're relying on RPI coming down - think it's 5.3% at present.