New Zealand ATC jobs
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New Zealand ATC jobs
Hi there thinking of leaving the emerald isle and considering different options. Anybody with prior or current experience of working as a Controller in NZ, what are airways NZ like as an employer,does salary give a good standard of living there etc, all advice appreciated.
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The salary is what is referred to as a Lifestyle Salary. They pay you a mediocre salary because the lifestyle here is so good. You'll live a comfortable existence but nothing special.
niknak
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What about residency/nationality requirements?
I qualify through family connections for normal residency requirements, but apparantly that wasn't good enough when I made enquiries a couple of years ago about emigrating and working as an atco in NZ.
I qualify through family connections for normal residency requirements, but apparantly that wasn't good enough when I made enquiries a couple of years ago about emigrating and working as an atco in NZ.
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When I applied and took the interview,I was told that they will provide for your "sponsorship" to allow to move,live and work there (i'm italian with no nz or oz passport).
they said it would have been a provisional visa (or better probationary) for the first 2 years,but after that it would have become unrestricted.
that was 2 years ago if i'm not mistaken
grtz
they said it would have been a provisional visa (or better probationary) for the first 2 years,but after that it would have become unrestricted.
that was 2 years ago if i'm not mistaken
grtz
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You need to ask a lot more questions!! Why are staff continuing to leave?? Last heard 2 have given 4 weeks notice. Others are pending! The CEO was heard to say that "they have a crisis but they have worked through it before".
They are running the system on recalls (call back from off duty time). Many years ago they gained an extra 16 days off when given a 4/2 roster system, based on the need to have "rest and recuperation" but now many staff are working 13 of those days. Ask yourself if that is good for your lifestyle.
They are running the system on recalls (call back from off duty time). Many years ago they gained an extra 16 days off when given a 4/2 roster system, based on the need to have "rest and recuperation" but now many staff are working 13 of those days. Ask yourself if that is good for your lifestyle.
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Ok, I'll bite. So why are they leaving and where are they going? I know some have come here to the Gulf but that would only account for a few.
Is it pay related or working conditions? From what I have heard the pay, despite the relative cost of living, is pretty poor when compared to other providers.
Is it pay related or working conditions? From what I have heard the pay, despite the relative cost of living, is pretty poor when compared to other providers.
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Is it pay related or working conditions? From what I have heard the pay, despite the relative cost of living, is pretty poor when compared to other providers.
Why did I leave? Several reasons the first being it was time to broaden my and my family's horizons but I wouldn't have entertained doing so unless there was a financial reward so certainly the fact that I am able to earn twice my NZ salary overseas (tax free) was also a big incentive.
The Original Party Animal
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Salary: low
Cost of living: high
Traffic levels: low
Income tax: high
Airways as an employer: Airservices Australia are worse, others are better
Biggest disadvantage IMHO: It's the end of the world (geographically speaking that is)
Cost of living: high
Traffic levels: low
Income tax: high
Airways as an employer: Airservices Australia are worse, others are better
Biggest disadvantage IMHO: It's the end of the world (geographically speaking that is)
Bleeding obvious
Spuds,
Nothing like telling it like it is!
But hey coming back from NZ to YBBN recently, and finding BN getting a bit metropolitan, now I understand the term GODZONE.
Still reminded me of a joke about us controllers that can be translated into one of our Global Recruits in OZ doing an exit interview when realising controlling in OZ has some shortcomings....
OZ ATC Manager: Okay, I understand why you are going back to Europe re salaries etc, but how would you rate us as an ANSP?
Ex Global: You are the second best in the world!
Stupid OZ ATC Manager: Oh, okay, that's nice of you to say that. Who's better than us??
Ex Global: Everyone else......
Nothing like telling it like it is!
But hey coming back from NZ to YBBN recently, and finding BN getting a bit metropolitan, now I understand the term GODZONE.
Still reminded me of a joke about us controllers that can be translated into one of our Global Recruits in OZ doing an exit interview when realising controlling in OZ has some shortcomings....
OZ ATC Manager: Okay, I understand why you are going back to Europe re salaries etc, but how would you rate us as an ANSP?
Ex Global: You are the second best in the world!
Stupid OZ ATC Manager: Oh, okay, that's nice of you to say that. Who's better than us??
Ex Global: Everyone else......
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"Airways as an employer: Airservices Australia are worse, others are better"
I have the option of applying to be a ATC trainee via Airways or Airservices. Why wouldn't you go through Airservices Oz? Everything that I've read says Airservices are the better crowd to go with but I'm skeptical. I love NZ but I want dont' want to settle for second best either. If you were in my shoes what would you be concentraing on getting into - NZ or OZ?
I have the option of applying to be a ATC trainee via Airways or Airservices. Why wouldn't you go through Airservices Oz? Everything that I've read says Airservices are the better crowd to go with but I'm skeptical. I love NZ but I want dont' want to settle for second best either. If you were in my shoes what would you be concentraing on getting into - NZ or OZ?
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They are running the system on recalls (call back from off duty time). Many years ago they gained an extra 16 days off when given a 4/2 roster system, based on the need to have "rest and recuperation" but now many staff are working 13 of those days. Ask yourself if that is good for your lifestyle.
It's interesting to note that its the same few names who post a doom and gloom reply to a 'working in NZ' type query. Perhapes you should talk to the other 300 odd controllers who seem quite content with working and living here. It's also interesting to talk to some of the recent imports who say that the T and C's and living here aren't that bad actually to what they have been used to.
At the end of the day it's what you make of it.
Last edited by conflict alert; 15th Jan 2010 at 06:36.
(Seriously)
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Recalls are voluntary!!!!
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Actually they are NOT voluntary...Airways can require up to 1 recall in 10 days or 2 in 36 days...anything in excess of this is voluntary.
Actually they are NOT voluntary.....anything in excess of this is voluntary.
Airways can require up to 1 recall in 10 days or 2 in 36 days
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Conflict Alert
Back in the days of "The War" (95/96) I'm pretty sure the company tried to force people to do recalls.
Slackie has got it right - your editing makes it seem otherwise.
"Recalls over the 1 in 10, 2 in 36 requirement are Voluntary"
It just happens that the pay rates are so low that people are looking to do as many recalls as possible to supplement their income.
That gives the compulsory requirement the illusion of being voluntary.
Read your collective agreement more closely and you will see that Slackie is right.
Slackie has got it right - your editing makes it seem otherwise.
"Recalls over the 1 in 10, 2 in 36 requirement are Voluntary"
It just happens that the pay rates are so low that people are looking to do as many recalls as possible to supplement their income.
That gives the compulsory requirement the illusion of being voluntary.
Read your collective agreement more closely and you will see that Slackie is right.
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Riiiiiiight
I'm not disputing what the CEC reads and I'm sure the original poster isn't too interested in what the T and C's were 14-15 years ago! Since you have mentioned it though - if that's the only occasion you can think of where Airways 'TRIED' to force people to come to work on recalls - then you prove my point, I have never heard of anyone being forced to come to work on an off duty day.
The original poster asked what it was like to work here.
One of the replies intimated that staff were MADE to work 13 recalls per year. I was merely pointing out that this was not the case. Sure - CEC implies that Airways can require someone to do a recall 1 in 10 or 2 in 36, but I have never seen it accept for the odd rostered recall which has generally been with the agreement of the individual concerned.
The 1 in 10 or 2 in 36 is generally used to determine who is first in line to be OFFERED a recall from the daily recall list. There are some ATCO's who NEVER work recalls - their choice.
Is it? - or is it the fact that a recall is very lucrative. I'm on the top step admittedly but one recall can be almost enough for a 5 or 7 day travel deal to OZ or a Pacific Island, I don't call that greed, or because my salary is low - I call it common sense!! Not bad for a 7.5 hour day which should have been off duty but it was pissing down with rain so I CHOSE to go to work after being OFFERED a recall.
And then if you CHOOSE to do a recall and your feeling a bit fatigued by the end of a work cycle - you can have a sick day!! And hey...you don't even lose any money for going sick because of the AIL based system.
As I said previously - its what you make of it and if staff think the money is crap or the T and C's are crap, well then bugger off and do something else. Wonder why they don't though!! Maybe because its not that bad after all, who knows.
A number of posters keep saying how bad it is here compared to the rest of the world. Take away the Sandpit - that's a given yep big money. Would anyone now care to give examples of locations where Cost of Living, ATC salary and T and C's are significantly better?? There must be a heap of them if NZ ranks so poorly!
How much you earn certainly depends on whether you as an individual choose to stay in the tower or move through to radar and on to a TMA sector. I can understand that and I know that starting salaries are pretty low when compared to other industry jobs. Personally, I have never felt hard done by - I've stuck out 28years so far and enjoy it. With a bit of OJTI I can clear almost 4k a fortnight - throw in a recall as well, throw on top of that a Public holiday - I'll let you do the maths!! I don't think that's too bad at all really!! And that DOESN"T include Airways contribution to my super!! But that's just my opinion. As I keep saying - its what you make of it.
I'm not disputing what the CEC reads and I'm sure the original poster isn't too interested in what the T and C's were 14-15 years ago! Since you have mentioned it though - if that's the only occasion you can think of where Airways 'TRIED' to force people to come to work on recalls - then you prove my point, I have never heard of anyone being forced to come to work on an off duty day.
your editing makes it seem otherwise.
One of the replies intimated that staff were MADE to work 13 recalls per year. I was merely pointing out that this was not the case. Sure - CEC implies that Airways can require someone to do a recall 1 in 10 or 2 in 36, but I have never seen it accept for the odd rostered recall which has generally been with the agreement of the individual concerned.
The 1 in 10 or 2 in 36 is generally used to determine who is first in line to be OFFERED a recall from the daily recall list. There are some ATCO's who NEVER work recalls - their choice.
It just happens that the pay rates are so low that people are looking to do as many recalls as possible to supplement their income.
And then if you CHOOSE to do a recall and your feeling a bit fatigued by the end of a work cycle - you can have a sick day!! And hey...you don't even lose any money for going sick because of the AIL based system.
As I said previously - its what you make of it and if staff think the money is crap or the T and C's are crap, well then bugger off and do something else. Wonder why they don't though!! Maybe because its not that bad after all, who knows.
A number of posters keep saying how bad it is here compared to the rest of the world. Take away the Sandpit - that's a given yep big money. Would anyone now care to give examples of locations where Cost of Living, ATC salary and T and C's are significantly better?? There must be a heap of them if NZ ranks so poorly!
How much you earn certainly depends on whether you as an individual choose to stay in the tower or move through to radar and on to a TMA sector. I can understand that and I know that starting salaries are pretty low when compared to other industry jobs. Personally, I have never felt hard done by - I've stuck out 28years so far and enjoy it. With a bit of OJTI I can clear almost 4k a fortnight - throw in a recall as well, throw on top of that a Public holiday - I'll let you do the maths!! I don't think that's too bad at all really!! And that DOESN"T include Airways contribution to my super!! But that's just my opinion. As I keep saying - its what you make of it.
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I was replying to your attack on Slackie, who was correctly quoting what can be enforced. You may find that some regional controllers have been required to work recalls, or even change their off duty days to make the roster work.
Having stuck it out with Aunty Airways for 27 years and suffered the big losses incurred by it's Super scheme (-17% for a few years). I moved to pastures browner and now greener.
I now earn twice as much as I did with Aunty as a TMA controller (= I save twice as much), have more time off and work less.
You do the maths
Having stuck it out with Aunty Airways for 27 years and suffered the big losses incurred by it's Super scheme (-17% for a few years). I moved to pastures browner and now greener.
I now earn twice as much as I did with Aunty as a TMA controller (= I save twice as much), have more time off and work less.
You do the maths
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I now earn twice as much as I did with Aunty as a TMA controller (= I save twice as much), have more time off and work less.
You do the maths
You do the maths
Presuming you had stayed here and you say 27yrs, then you would be on or very close to the top step by now and average between the 140-150k mark depending on the sector AIL, OJTI, etc. Given the current exchange rate at .45 that would indicate you earn around the 130,000 pound mark (to earn twice as much). I'm surprised there hasn't been an influx of English ATCO's at that salary! So to be as better off as you say the tax would have to be alot lower, and you would certainly have to get more value for your pound over there vs our NZD here ie what you can buy for 1 pound there and what you can buy for 1 dollar here etc.
On average I would say actual time on position per shift would be around 6 hours - a lot less in the weekends so you would have to do less than that and better than our 2 on 1 off roster concept. You must have better than 33 annual leave, 11 stat, and 5 shift workers leave ie 49 days off.
So, assuming your not exaggerating at all, then we have 2 locations outside of NZ which have much better salaries and T and C's and better cost of living.
Good for you on making the move but it still doesn't make, IMHO, NZ as one of the lowest ranked places to work 'in the world', as some posters seem to attest to.
There you go - I've done the math, and I wasn't attacking Slackie, merely clarifying my point.