FL420?

[Dee Mac]

"Nothing in this manual prevents controllers from using their own discretion and initiative in any particular circumstance."

[Jumbo Driver]

Surely it depends on whether you consider the question to be whether a certain Cruising Level may be allocated or whether vertical separation exists at that Level?

In UK airspace, as vapourer rightly says, MATS Part 1 says in Section 1 Chapter 4:

6.5.4 Cruising levels at or above FL410 up to FL660 shall be selected according to the semicircular rule, therefore, Flight Levels available are:

• Eastbound FL410, FL450, FL490 etc.
• Westbound FL430, FL470, FL510 etc.

However, the vertical separation minima required are defined elsewhere, in Section 1 Chapter 3:

5.1.1 Vertical separation exists when the vertical distance between aircraft is never less than the prescribed minimum. The vertical separation minima are:

a) Between aircraft flying subsonic:
Up to FL290 apply 1000 feet;
Above FL290 apply 2000 feet, except that between FL290 and FL410 inclusive, 1000 feet may be applied between RVSM approved aircraft operating in airspace designated as being notified for the application of this separation standard.

b) Between aircraft flying supersonic and between aircraft flying supersonic and aircraft flying subsonic:
Up to FL450 2000 feet;
Above FL450 4000 feet.

In any case, as the original question relates to the allocation of a Cruising Level in Netherlands airspace, UK MATS Part 1 may not be an entirely relevant source.



JD

[LapSap]

Sorry, we don't all follow the great UK MATS Bible.

[JonG]

"Nothing in this manual prevents controllers from using their own discretion and initiative in any particular circumstance."

I'm sure there should be something about "believing that there is a risk of a collision" somewhere in that quote.

[Pera]

of course 415 is separated from 400

In OZ, min 2000ft is separation is required from an aircraft at FL415.

An aircraft on climb from FL410 to FL430 is separated from FL400 as long as 1000ft separation exists while on climb and the appropriate separation standard exists when the aircraft reaches FL430. (2000ft) (Obviously both aircraft would be RNAV approved)

Separation should always be based on the greatest standard needed. FL415 requires 2000ft.

[PPRuNe Radar]

In OZ, min 2000ft is separation is required from an aircraft at FL415.

Mmm, I don't see the logic of that if both aircraft are RVSM approved and one is at FL400 and one is at FL415. They are separated with one at FL400 and one at FL410 (1000') so why are they not separated when they have an excess of that separation standard ?

If you instructed one pilot to fly at FL400 and the other to fly at FL410 or above, you would have separation would you not ?? That's exactly what you are applying here.

The rules don't have to always be blindly followed, sometimes you have to think about what is being said and then apply them as they were actually intended without adding complications which simply don't exist.

[belk78]

In Spain 400 is separated from 415. 415 not separated from 430 obviously. Never saw anyone at FL415 though.
I have sometimes been asked for FL420 and my answer was always the same "400 or 430 sir". I am not saying 420 is not a level, but we do not use it.

[Dee Mac]

MATS 1 Section 1 Chapter 1 Page 1

"1 Introduction
1.1 Air Traffic Services within the UK are provided in accordance with the Air Navigation Order and Rules of the Air Regulations. Generally these are in line with the Standards and Recommended Practices of the International Civil Aviation Organisation.
1.2 The Manual of Air Traffic Services contains instructions and guidance to controllers providing Air Traffic Services. Nothing in this manual prevents controllers from using their own discretion and initiative in any particular circumstance. "

Nothing mentioned about confining discretion/initiative to collision avoidance.