ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January

[The Jolly Roger]

I'm sick to the teeth of listening to this management make us feel like cow ****. Because thats the way I feel right now. Its time that we, as a united body of Air Traffic Controllers, made a stand against all this obvious slander. The media haven't seen "unofficial action" yet.....SHAME ON THE IAA...SHAME ON YOU....Wher the hell is IMPACT...Why are you letting this happen...This is shocking...Your members need you NOW...Where are you...????

[badback]

The IAA can solve this problem in a matter of weeks and it lies in the 20+ résumés they have from current contollers seeking Direct Entry.

1. Have you forgotten the requirement to complete rating training, or do you think direct entries will simply walk in one day and pick up a headset?

2. Even with huge recruitment, the problem of the IAA providing no contingency to cover sick leave (other than an ad hoc overtime scheme that staff are increasingly sick of providing) will always lead to shortages of staff. Despite their protestations recently that ATC rosters do not rely on overtime, it is clear that managements plan to deal with shortages (in many cases long term illness and pregnancies) by relying on their current arrangements.

[tin-pusher]

Badback, I'm only well aware the of the length of a conversion course. When I said a "matter of weeks", I meant getting the ball rolling for a solution.....sorry!

[irishatco]

Where is the Union

ATCOS are paying €600 a year to the union - where are they?

ATCOS give up 1 day of leave a year to the union-where are they?

IAA spouts loads of lies on the website - wheres the unions rebuttal?

We are well used to Mr Landers on the tv or radio defending members of other impact branches when there is trouble like this - Where is he?

Wheres Shergar
Wheres Jimmy Hoffa
Wheres Elvis
Wheres Waldo
Wheres the Union?
Wheres my money gone?
Wheres my leave day gone?

Where are the people employed by us to defend us from this bull**** media campaign?

ANYONE?

[badback]

Soon to be shown the door if they don't buck up their ideas methinks...

[goodworker]

Being primarily familiar with Dublin tower, the thought of only one tower ATCO in the building is inconceivable. Combining AMC and SMC at 0630 would make for a very interesting morning

Still, with regards to the recent closure, the ATCO had to follow the minimum staffing line. A line which has been set down, wisely enough, by our management. For ATCOs, acting outside procedure is like having no immune system. You might be okay, you could well be okay, but if some nastiness decides to come your way YOUR F****D.

[Lord Lardy]

From Ryanair's website.

The Irish Aviation Authority advised Ryanair last evening (8th February) that due to another unofficial strike action by their Air Traffic Control staff at Shannon, the airport will be closed to aircraft from 9pm to midnight on Saturday 9th February.
This will inevitably cause disruption, delay and possibly cancellations. Ryanair apologises to passengers for any inconvenience this action will cause (which is out of our control).
Ryanair once again calls on Bertie Ahern and his government to put in place appropriate contingency plans to keep Irish airports open and avoid passengers being hijacked by wildcat trade unions' strikes.
As usual Bertie Ahern sits on his hands doing nothing while passengers are needlessly and unfairly disrupted by his out of control trade union pals. Time to get your finger out Bertie?

[grr nav]

"to put in place appropriate contingency plans"


like having extra staff??


i must admit to being called a lot of things in my time, but a wildcat?

Grrrr baby

[alwaysmovin]

Air traffic controllers vote for industrial action

From ireland.com

12:25

Sunday, 10th February, 2008


Air traffic controllers have voted 99 per cent in favour of industrial action including strike.

A dozen flights were cancelled at Shannon Airport last night after controllers again refused to work overtime.
Management say the controllers are engaged in unofficial wildcat action but the controllers, who are members of Impact trade union, say they are not contractually obliged to work overtime and do so voluntarily.
They have taken the action due to what they say is chronic under-staffing. It takes some time to train controllers even if they are qualified and the company says it has hired around 15 people who will join the service on completion of their training later this year.
The vote was concluded on Friday and the details were released today. The union must serve two weeks notice of any industrial action it proposes to take but has not done so to allow time for internal discussion on what for industrial action should take. Talks at the Labour Relations Commission are set for Tuesday week.

[ock1f]

Having made the appointment yesterday i am now recovering from it-still not feeling the best but there you go. If for arguements sake i was not fit for duty by the time my next duty day comes around, how much chaos would this cause? Who knows, as the staff might or might not be there to fill to gap.

As already posted "only 60% of staff in Dublin do overtime, so does that mean the other 40% of staff have been conducting "industrial action" for the last god knows how long? "
Well yes by the IAA logic the 40% of staff who haven't agreed to do OPTIONAL overtime and call-ins have indeed been engaging in wildcat industrial action. Anyone see a fault in that logic ?

While i am not privvy to up-to-date figures i do know that in the month of November just gone there were a total of 92 call-ins in shannon. This with a total controller workforce of approx 140. I'm not very bright (hence i'm an ATCO ) but that seems to me that the roster is propped up by overtime and call-ins to a huge degree.
92 call-ins in one month out of a total staff of 140-ish.

Throw into that a few pregnancies, maternity leave, the vey odd sickness and about 30 to 40 atcos on project work and i think the staffing picture (for one station) starts becoming much clearer. I am sure that the Dub and Crk people have their own figures which are just as interesting.
The one thing i have noticed is that people are coming into work visibly sick. When this is commented upon, they say that they are worried about leaving their colleagues short and having to cope. So don't for one second doubt the commitment and dedication the atcos of this company have to actually working and doing the job even in adverse conditions.

On a related matter, about 2 to 3 years ago IAA staff were bombared with literature on how the IAA had the best family friendly policies and work life balance policies. It sounded great. Where are they now?
This has already been stated but people have a life outside of the job.They do want to spend SOME time with their families . Also having finished the normal working week they are sick of the place so dont feel like working extra OPTIONAL days. It is not unknown for leave to be denied a full year after having applied for it. To all non-IAA atcos who read this ,imagine informing your employer today that you need the 10th of Feb 2009 off. Imagine how you would feel when the 10th of Feb 2009
actually comes around and the leave has been denied due a staff shortage. Imagine how you would feel when the leave you require is for your wedding,a close family members funeral,the birth of your child,your birthday or any other momentus personal occasion and you can't get leave.

Family friendly and work life balance policies as well as protecting and advancing their members working conditions are the publicly stated aims and policies of Impact. So why have they been so tardy in representing and protecting their members?

Well i still think there is serious outside pressure being applied to Impact with the intention of heading off any strike action or at least delaying it for as long as possible. Obviously a strike that would ground all air traffic in Ireland and delay or cancel thousands of flights around europe and the USA would become a huge political and media event. In fact this would become one of the biggest political issues that Ireland would have seen in a long time.

However i would say to Impact that there has been a valid ballot and an unequivecal (sic) result so issue the industrial action notice to the IAA. I am no expert on the technical IR rules but i think a week or maybe two weeks notice must be served of the action. So serve the notice and then meet the IAA face to face. The industrial action notice would most definitely focus the minds across the table and hopefully prompt them that now might the time to engage in meaningfull talks.

Just because we serve action notice does NOT mean that we have to advocate an all out stoppage as our first option. I have said numerous times here that the nuclear option should be our last and final option despite the obvious mood for giving the company the kick up the arse that they need to wake them up. I have also previously said that an official ban on call-ins and overtime and a work to rule policy should be the first options if we need to. Obviously in the absence of any progress then the need arises. Working to rule would really highlight the staff deficiencies. Every two hours demand your breaks,demand that your sector is split when you hit the agreed maximums and watch management try and conjure staff out of thin air especially with no overtime or call-ins (which again are totally optional)

To Impact i also say that if you don't support your members and back them up and protect them, then Impact WILL be shown the door. I imagine as this now is so high profile they cannot deny their own membership.

To sum up-we need to play this smart and play it cool. We can acheive so much by doing so little as the situation that is there at managements behest will do it for us !

Yours as ever
OCK1F

[norby]

Atc Industrial action

I can confirm that for about 75(ish) live controllers in Dublin there were around 400 call ins for the last 6 months of 2007 and yet the IAA claim that the system is not dependant on overtime. I don't see how an average of 2.5 duties per day covered by overtime can be considered normal!! The 75 controllers man " area radar sectors, approach tower, ground, and clearance. They are also supposed to facilitate an intermediate approach, FIS and departure controller positions.
I don't know exactly how many but on a surprising number of occasions ATCO's worked 2 consecutive rest days meanig they were in work for 12 out of 13 days!!!!! Does IAA mangement not have a duty of care towards the health and safety of their staff( not to mention the public)?

Add in maternity leave and up coming retirements and the 75 shrinks to 65ish before the end of this year.
No replacement staff until 2009 AT THE EARLIEST and thats if they can find anyone to train the recruits.
OH YES thing at Irish ATC are heading only one way.......

[irishatco]

Latest Propaganda

The latest offering from iaa website

http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=447


10 February 2008: The Irish Aviation Authority was advised earlier today through a media statement by the IMPACT trade union that Air Traffic Controllers had balloted for industrial action, up to and including strike action. Notice of this action, or indeed the nature of any action, has not yet been served on the Authority.
The Authority is disappointed by IMPACT’s communication through a media statement. Any action is in breach of the current National Agreement, Towards 2016, a Continuity of Service Agreement, signed by IMPACT and the Irish Aviation Authority, and national industrial relations procedures. Disruptive action is continuing notwithstanding an ongoing process in the Labour Relations Commission to resolve the various issues at the heart of this dispute.
The Irish Aviation Authority responds to today’s IMPACT statement as follows.

1. The Authority is satisfied, that through custom and practice, overtime arrangements applying to Air Traffic Controllers form part of their conditions of service. Of course it would be better if overtime was not necessary. However, in any operation requiring cover over 24 hours, extra attendance will feature as a means of addressing short notice absences such as sickness. Many Air Traffic Service Providers, including the National Air Traffic Services in the UK, have in place schemes of additional attendance to augment operational service delivery. The current overtime arrangements were introduced as part of an overall agreement reached with Controllers under Clause 2 (iii) of Partnership 2000 for which they received a 17% pay rise.
2. There is not a shortage of Air Traffic Controllers in the Irish Aviation Authority. In fact, some 15 Controllers retired from the Authority under a Voluntary Early Retirement Scheme in 2003/2004 without IMPACT objection. Staffing levels are matched to the level of air traffic at any given time and are applied in accordance with international standards.
3. IMPACT agrees that traffic demand is the prime determinant in the deployment of staff resources and it is a matter for management to decide on restrictions to apply whenever necessary. It is common practice among all Air Traffic Service Providers to apply traffic restrictions where demand exceeds the capacity of the system. Air Traffic Controllers are very well protected from overload through a defined workload threshold.
4. The Authority acknowledges that as part of an agreed flexible arrangement voluntary overtime is used to cover absences primarily caused by sick leave. The Authority rejects the IMPACT statement that the air traffic control system has become over dependent on rest day attendance. To put this in context total overtime attendance by Air Traffic Controllers in 2007 represented less than 2% of contracted hours and the average overtime attendance was less than one hour per Controller per week.
5. While the current system of extra attendance is equitable with overtime available to all Controllers, both sides are currently considering an alternative method of extra attendance to address short notice absences.
6. The Irish Aviation Authority advertised for Student Air Traffic Controllers in August 2007 and 36 Students will commence training next month and the first of these will be fully operational mid 2009. This recruitment was planned to meet forecasted traffic growth and expected retirements well in advance of the current embargo on overtime which commenced in January 2008.
7. While some Air Traffic Controllers have worked overtime the reality is that notwithstanding IMPACT commitments Controllers have refused to cover sick leave absences and absences caused by the release of ATC Branch members to attend LRC discussions.

Air Traffic Controllers have benefited from all four phases of T-2016 and in addition to the 10% paid under that agreement have also, through a Labour Court process completed in December 2007, secured a Recommendation of an additional 5% pay increase backdated to 1 January 2006 to cover all change up to the end of 2008. No staffing issues arose prior to the announcement of the Labour Court award, even during busy months of July/August and Christmas, where maximum staff would be on leave
The Authority regrets the continuous inconvenience to the travelling public, but must advise that having regard to the current action restrictions to traffic and consequential delays over the coming days may be inevitable.
ENDS
For further information contact:

Corporate Communications Manager
Irish Aviation Authority
Tel:

[norby]

If my memory serves me correctly The IAA have had to be dragged to the labour court to MAKE them pay the last 2 0r 3 National wage agreements because they claimed inability to pay.

It would take a complete fool to compare the IAA and UKNATS
After all They are rated as NO. 10 in the top 100 employers in the UK and the IAA is rated No 248 in Ireland.
Any UK controllers care to join us and tell us if you cant get leave or parental leave or job sharing or carreer breaks.
Still if you work "under" someone whos brother promotes you into a 6figure salary in charge of a semi state under his jurisdiction despite your obvious failures as Commercial director you might feel invincible too.

So the IAA's interpretaetions of short term shortage is an average of 800 call ins per year?
Are we now indentured slaves liable to work 55 hour weeks because of managements interpretations of partnership and short term?

Is anyone surprised that none of the IAA comuniques so far mention the dirty word SAFETY.
When accountants run safety services!!! I think i saw that on SKY 1 it centred on Uberlingen and Linate.
Keep the Standards High and make the accountants accountable

[ock1f]

Hi guys
just my opinion but i dont think we should refer to the IAA comms person by name or frau goebbels. Just my two cents-i prefer to keep it non-personal, which this is. Its just business,not personal, and we are the professional smart ones here as is obvious when you read each succesive press release by managment/corporate comms manager.

Their statements are so juvenile and full of holes i could write for a week.
The posts here do a very job good job of exposing the lies,untruths,statistical mistakes,failed logic and downright dirty spin that these statements spew forth.
However it is only by exposing each lie and untruth that we get our message across.

This is a very public forum and you can bet that a very close eye is kept on it not only by our colleagues but also Impact ,the press and especially the IAA.
At the moment in the absence of any public utterance from Impact these posts by you and me are the ONLY public counterbalance to the IAA's (admittedly) very good spin. This is a professional dispute mainly of saftey issues so i intend to keep it clean and proffessional!!!!

Unless provoked !

Yours as ever
Ock1f

[Del Prado]

The Authority is satisfied, that through custom and practice, overtime arrangements applying to Air Traffic Controllers form part of their conditions of service................. The current overtime arrangements were introduced as part of an overall agreement reached with Controllers under Clause 2 (iii) of Partnership 2000 for which they received a 17% pay rise.

Overtime is voluntary but it's part of your terms and conditions so employer has a right to expect it?

As a NATS controller I find this very interesting.

[ock1f]

Del prado-overtime is 100% voluntary but is NOT , i say again, NOT part of our T +C's

Just spin and lies

For pure arguements sake just say they were part of our T+C's - its still VOLUNTARY or OPTIONAL purely at your own PERSONAL CHOICE and part of that choice is saying yes or NO.
So how then,logically can you rely on this mechanism to patch up a woefully short staff situation.
Hope that helps

Yours as ever
OCK1F

[PPRuNe Radar]

I agree with ck1F. Don't belittle your arguments with childish name calling. The appropriate editorial changes have been made. Now back to the debate ...

Many Air Traffic Service Providers, including the National Air Traffic Services in the UK, have in place schemes of additional attendance to augment operational service delivery.

The UK NATS has an 'overtime' scheme called the AAVA Scheme. This stands for Additonal Attendance Voluntary Agreement. My emphasis on the Voluntary. But maybe the IAA don't quite understand what it actually entails. Units may have slight local variations but in general;

The AAVA scheme has a limited life. The ATCO union, Prospect, on behalf of it's members have agreed when it is valid until (2009 rings a bell). After that, it can be terminated, or an extension or change to conditions negotiated if that's what members want. It is by no means certain that it will continue indefinitely.

Staff are not obliged to sign up for it if they don't want to. The clue is in the word Voluntary.

Staff who do sign up to it generally make NATS aware of when they are available for callout. If you have not registered your interest in doing AAVAs you won't receive a call.

Staff who are called may decline the offered shift if they wish, there is no compulsory attendance for any minimum number of shifts. There is a national agreed maximum number of attendances.

Staff who have agreed to attend an AAVA prior to the publication of the roster will be rostered for the duty as a strategic shift attendance. It can only be cancelled with the agreement of both parties.

Staff who are called after the roster is published should normally be given 48 hours notice if possible (but this can be reduced, e.g. to cover last minute sickness). Up to 48 hours before the shift, either party can cancel the attendance if they choose.

Attendances are renumerated with a one off payment per shift. This varies depending on the unit grading, but is in the range £200-£600 before tax approximately.

A similar scheme exists for staff to sell annual leave, up to a maximum of 6 days per annum. Again, this is voluntary.


NATS cannot count on anything other than the goodwill and the promise of some cash to make people attend on 'overtime'. Reading the press statement from the IAA, they seem to think that it is part of their controllers core conditions of employment and it is inferred that it is mandatory. The ATCOs in NATS (I strongly believe) would never accept such conditions as basic terms of employment.

There is not a shortage of Air Traffic Controllers in the Irish Aviation Authority. In fact, some 15 Controllers retired from the Authority under a Voluntary Early Retirement Scheme in 2003/2004 without IMPACT objection. Staffing levels are matched to the level of air traffic at any given time and are applied in accordance with international standards.

This sounds like a version of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. Shortage ?? What shortage ??


One side in the debate is telling porkies it would seem.

[thelowestlevel]

Having read the statement from the IAA website, i am again dismayed but not surprised. I would second ock1f, to keep this as business like as possible and not get personal.

To dispute a few points:
Quote
"The Authority is satisfied, that through custom and practice, overtime arrangements applying to Air Traffic Controllers form part of their conditions of service. Of course it would be better if overtime was not necessary. However, in any operation requiring cover over 24 hours, extra attendance will feature as a means of addressing short notice absences such as sickness."

These schemes are in place, but go look at back issues of the Network news and you will see occassions where sectors in adjacent centres are closed, and the stated cause is "Staff Shortages" or even on occassion, it actually states "sick Leave"

This brings me to point 2:
Quote
"It is common practice among all Air Traffic Service Providers to apply traffic restrictions where demand exceeds the capacity of the system. Air Traffic Controllers are very well protected from overload through a defined workload threshold."

This in simple terms is Flow Control/Management.
These particular words are "dirty words" as far as Shannon Management are concerned. Whie restrictions do get put in place for holiday flights on the T Routes, flow restrictions are never implemented in Shannon for regular day to day NAT traffic, or are a lower number of NAT tracks requested due to staffing shortages.

Staff are left to cope, and sitting in for in excess of the 2 hour max is common practice when staffing is below minimums on very busy days.

If this is queried by staff, the response is generally not pleasent, and the standard answer of "Staffing is at the discretion of Management" is regurlarly used.
Does this mean that as a consequence of over worked controllers, passenger safety is also at the discretion of management.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Staff are left to cope, and sitting in for in excess of the 2 hour max is common practice when staffing is below minimums on very busy days.

Does Ireland have a legal restriction on controllers hours and working practices ?? The UK has a relatively robust scheme and offers the ATCO the level of protection needed in terms of duty times, rostered hours, fatigue breaks, etc. It's called SRATCOH and can be found here in Appendix D if you want a look :

CAP670

[norby]

Hi Del Prado
Thanks for the post.
Just so you get a rounded view, as a Dublin ATCO I get an annuyal allowance of 33 days Annual Leave to use at my discretion, however, under IAA leave policies any unused leave will be taken back by the company with no compensation offered. (ILLEGAL)
This is well and good if you can apply for and use up all your leave in the given year but when you apply for 80 days leave and get 20 to 25 of those including your guaranteed 12 days for summer hols and 5 days for winter it becomes impossible to accept. I mentioned a figure of 800days OT per year in Dublin, this is only to cover sick leave and project work and admin. Nevr to give a hard working controller a day off.
People here are sick to death of missing Family weddings (or their own) birthdays social occasions and all manner of other "Normal" social interactions because 90% of the time leave is refused.
It is impossible even to get unpaid Parental Leave which is a statutory right.
When one female controller announced her pregnancy to management she was asked if it was reversable!!!!! ( or so I'm Told)
Maybe we should ditch Impact and sue the IAA for breach of contract, after all they are obliged to give us all the leave we aare entitled to in our contracts!