ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
Join Date: Feb 2008
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SoS
I bleed reading the posts today......
Is the oul strategy taking effect already - divide and conquer?
Walk the corridors with yer backs to the wall!!
Sadly I can only empathise with my former colleagues but the ole leopard still has the same spots and some of them seem to be infected!
All the best to the lads and lassies who do this profession proud and will continue to do so in the face of ......... cliche cliche....
As Ted said ''shur de lads will manage it''.....................
RESPECT
ATCOs
Is the oul strategy taking effect already - divide and conquer?
Walk the corridors with yer backs to the wall!!
Sadly I can only empathise with my former colleagues but the ole leopard still has the same spots and some of them seem to be infected!
All the best to the lads and lassies who do this profession proud and will continue to do so in the face of ......... cliche cliche....
As Ted said ''shur de lads will manage it''.....................
RESPECT
ATCOs
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I was there too today.
The Union emphatically said the balls in Mismanagements court re SCP 8/9/10/11 but that the LC has told the IAA they have to talk to IMPACT about future recruitment and that its the Union's stance that they are needed ASAP, Annual leave v Project's.
Also there are 4 contract atco's ready to start training next month.
I'm not defending Mismanagement but where do you expect them to pull so many new controllers from ready to start.
The call in system before its presented to us to vote on will be sharpened up to include Max number of duties your able to do etc.
Remember they have agreed to 36 SCP's plus 20-22 direct entry controllers all to start on the boards within the next 24 months.
Until the vote we are all still able to exercise are right to Voluntarily withdraw from Overtime. Even after a vote if its passed you can either DO overtime or NOT do overtime.
The Union emphatically said the balls in Mismanagements court re SCP 8/9/10/11 but that the LC has told the IAA they have to talk to IMPACT about future recruitment and that its the Union's stance that they are needed ASAP, Annual leave v Project's.
Also there are 4 contract atco's ready to start training next month.
I'm not defending Mismanagement but where do you expect them to pull so many new controllers from ready to start.
The call in system before its presented to us to vote on will be sharpened up to include Max number of duties your able to do etc.
Remember they have agreed to 36 SCP's plus 20-22 direct entry controllers all to start on the boards within the next 24 months.
Until the vote we are all still able to exercise are right to Voluntarily withdraw from Overtime. Even after a vote if its passed you can either DO overtime or NOT do overtime.
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22 Direct entries....
Who in their right mind is going to go and work for the IAA on a 3 year contract for 60k a year (rumour has it that that iswhat they are offering???) They been claimimg that they are recruiting direct entries but they haven't even advertised in flight international and there is nothing on their website if you clink on the jobs section....
I suppose all these direct entries are going to have to guess that the IAA are looking for staff and apply. If any of them have any common sense they will also have looked at this thread very carefully...
Who in their right mind is going to go and work for the IAA on a 3 year contract for 60k a year (rumour has it that that iswhat they are offering???) They been claimimg that they are recruiting direct entries but they haven't even advertised in flight international and there is nothing on their website if you clink on the jobs section....
I suppose all these direct entries are going to have to guess that the IAA are looking for staff and apply. If any of them have any common sense they will also have looked at this thread very carefully...
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They will advertise in Flight the day we vote YES apparently.
8 on temporary contracts for 3 years. 12-14 on permanent contracts. They will enter at the bottom of the seniority list but will join the pay scale in line with there experience so if you have 2 years point 2, 10 years point ten etc etc.
8 on temporary contracts for 3 years. 12-14 on permanent contracts. They will enter at the bottom of the seniority list but will join the pay scale in line with there experience so if you have 2 years point 2, 10 years point ten etc etc.
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Needless to say I was at that meeting too. I got the impression that there was only 1 outstanding issue and that what was discussed had the blessing of the Labour court.
I was encouraged that the Union have extracted a commitment for 3 extra SCP's (SCP8 to be recruited at the end of this year) and that management will advertise for direct entries as soon as we agree (if we agree)
I doubt if we would have gotten any more on the staffing if we had gone on strike.
The rest of the package Guaranteed fatigue breaks all al applied for in'08 will be approved 5 year expertships for ALL rated ATCOS extra job sharing......forgive me if I'm wrong but is this not why we started this? I was really Sceptical about Impacts ability to deliver but it appears that they have and I dont think that we would have gotten a better settlement.
PN said that becaise of the vile treatment of staff the IAA's "change programme" is off the table as is the 5% vote until the IAA seriously mend fences also the labour court had stern words and LK is investigating the leak to rIAAnair though we know it was PR. In a nice move the exec produced the infamous preferential treatment notice but not apparently before it "fell" into a certain pilots briefcase.
A much more positive outcome than I had ever expecting and Overtime is still voluntary, the union will not ask anyone to go back on ot if an airport closes thats managements fault!!
I was encouraged that the Union have extracted a commitment for 3 extra SCP's (SCP8 to be recruited at the end of this year) and that management will advertise for direct entries as soon as we agree (if we agree)
I doubt if we would have gotten any more on the staffing if we had gone on strike.
The rest of the package Guaranteed fatigue breaks all al applied for in'08 will be approved 5 year expertships for ALL rated ATCOS extra job sharing......forgive me if I'm wrong but is this not why we started this? I was really Sceptical about Impacts ability to deliver but it appears that they have and I dont think that we would have gotten a better settlement.
PN said that becaise of the vile treatment of staff the IAA's "change programme" is off the table as is the 5% vote until the IAA seriously mend fences also the labour court had stern words and LK is investigating the leak to rIAAnair though we know it was PR. In a nice move the exec produced the infamous preferential treatment notice but not apparently before it "fell" into a certain pilots briefcase.
A much more positive outcome than I had ever expecting and Overtime is still voluntary, the union will not ask anyone to go back on ot if an airport closes thats managements fault!!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Funny then how all we got was a typed up sheet from the union. Notice how you did'nt get anything in writing from management regarding these proposals. Also funny how none of these proposals were mentioned in the press, in fact the only one being that about extra money for overtime.
The public perception of us at the moment is that we are greedy civil servants. This reputation has been created by management's doing over the past few weeks. None of you seem to bothered by this and it appears that you wont be taking this any further.
I for one will wait until I see extra staff in the building before I believe anything that the union says to be true.
As far as my respect for the IAA and their comms officer goes, I can never forgive them for what they have done.
The public perception of us at the moment is that we are greedy civil servants. This reputation has been created by management's doing over the past few weeks. None of you seem to bothered by this and it appears that you wont be taking this any further.
I for one will wait until I see extra staff in the building before I believe anything that the union says to be true.
As far as my respect for the IAA and their comms officer goes, I can never forgive them for what they have done.
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The public perception of us at the moment is that we are greedy civil servants. This reputation has been created by management's doing over the past few weeks. None of you seem to bothered by this and it appears that you wont be taking this any further.
The NEC said that it was very much there intention to get it out there and investigated the very close relationship between the IAA and Ryanair. They DO have a copy of said memo from Shannon Management.
So give them a break they are doing the job and are getting results.
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I never said I wasn't angry still at LC and cronies. I went to the GM this morning with a copy of my medical certs and said I wanted an apology from IAA/ LC for insinuating that it was not genuine. Tomorrow I will post a copy direcly to LC and if neither of them produce a satisfactory answer I will go to a solicitor and follow their advice from then on in. I think everybody that was out sick should do the same.
PN said that because of the vile treatment of staff the IAA's "change programme" is off the table as is the 5% vote until the IAA seriously mend fences that means ther will be no SPO discussions and no NOTA til the make serious amends, I have to trust the union will get that because management sure as s**T don't listen to me!!
In the preamble to the meeting we were asked to wait (for 2 hours) because the exec and the IAA were exchanging faxes clarifying each of the items on that handout because they wanted to be sure that IAA understood and accepted each major point.
My reading is that this is what we want, mangement accept it and the labour court will enforce it subject to ballot. Vote as you will but don't reject it out of hand
PN said that because of the vile treatment of staff the IAA's "change programme" is off the table as is the 5% vote until the IAA seriously mend fences that means ther will be no SPO discussions and no NOTA til the make serious amends, I have to trust the union will get that because management sure as s**T don't listen to me!!
In the preamble to the meeting we were asked to wait (for 2 hours) because the exec and the IAA were exchanging faxes clarifying each of the items on that handout because they wanted to be sure that IAA understood and accepted each major point.
My reading is that this is what we want, mangement accept it and the labour court will enforce it subject to ballot. Vote as you will but don't reject it out of hand
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"They also said timing was key in this matter and to get it out there first so its in the public mind before you get any bull from the others"
The damage is already done mate. The public have been getting "bull" from the other side for the past while. I think Mr Landers "timing" is a little off
The damage is already done mate. The public have been getting "bull" from the other side for the past while. I think Mr Landers "timing" is a little off
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The damage is already done mate. The public have been getting "bull" from the other side for the past while. I think Mr Landers "timing" is a little off
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Public Perceptions
BAW676, What exactly did ML say on Newstalk? I missed the interview but heard the aftermath of texts saying how evil and greedy we are and how Reagan had the right idea etc., so the PR for us from it seems pretty poor - as has been the case all along so far.
If we do get all the unagreed items accepted by mismanagement, I think the proposal as a whole is probably worth accepting. However, I think we should orchestrate a very small winning margin of a ballot to publically demonstrate our displeasure.
Then once its in - no one do overtime. Take our leave guarantees, our roster guarantees, our job share guarantees. And let them sweat. Force them to make the overtime rate too good to resist. Don't sell ourselves so cheap. €142k average is what we are worth before overtime!
If we do get all the unagreed items accepted by mismanagement, I think the proposal as a whole is probably worth accepting. However, I think we should orchestrate a very small winning margin of a ballot to publically demonstrate our displeasure.
Then once its in - no one do overtime. Take our leave guarantees, our roster guarantees, our job share guarantees. And let them sweat. Force them to make the overtime rate too good to resist. Don't sell ourselves so cheap. €142k average is what we are worth before overtime!
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catullus
we won simple as that. we all know that the iia cant deliver on what has been promised.so savour the moment,then lets keep them under pressure .power to the real workers
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Well said, Norby!
Well done, Nat Exec. I couldn't make the information meeting as the IAA had other uses for my time. The momentum for all this began in EIDW with our roster under threat. Now we have a long-term commitment to 5/3. Staffing needs appear to be top of the agenda and commitments to enable people to avail of leave (annual & parental) are positive. I still won't be doing any overtime! 
And I still want a very public apology from our Comms Manager for the offence, hurt and lies - or else a head on a plate!
And I still want a very public apology from our Comms Manager for the offence, hurt and lies - or else a head on a plate!
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Can't quote him verbatim but basically Hooky went through the whole issue from start to finish and Landers straightened him out at every turn. In fairness Hooky/researchers have done there research and knew what to ask etc.
Questioned on the :
1)Issues
2)in depth on staffing
3)What were actually paid
4)What hours we work
5)What the call in system was about
6)What we asked for (money wise)
7)Recommendations
Any one else hear it and fill in the gaps ?
Questioned on the :
1)Issues
2)in depth on staffing
3)What were actually paid
4)What hours we work
5)What the call in system was about
6)What we asked for (money wise)
7)Recommendations
Any one else hear it and fill in the gaps ?
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Public Perceptions
BAW676, thanks.
Interesting that when the truth is presented - no one is particularily interested. The IAA's viscious portrayal of us has demonised us in the public mind. For this alone we should make the IAA pay.
An Admittance of the staff shortage - I'm told this will never happen as it proves that management have not been doing their job.
A PUBLIC apology to controllers from the IAA about their slanderous portrayal and general mistreatment of us - a special IAA News 50th 'We're Sorry' edition handed out to all airport passengers for a week - can't see that happening!
All I can think of then is general uncooperation at every turn. Just say no to everything they request - particulary overtime!
Interesting that when the truth is presented - no one is particularily interested. The IAA's viscious portrayal of us has demonised us in the public mind. For this alone we should make the IAA pay.
An Admittance of the staff shortage - I'm told this will never happen as it proves that management have not been doing their job.
A PUBLIC apology to controllers from the IAA about their slanderous portrayal and general mistreatment of us - a special IAA News 50th 'We're Sorry' edition handed out to all airport passengers for a week - can't see that happening!
All I can think of then is general uncooperation at every turn. Just say no to everything they request - particulary overtime!
Last edited by qnhhpa; 26th Feb 2008 at 20:31.
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catullus
Get OVER IT LI LOW LIL WILL BE MOVED SIDEWAYS IN A MONTH OR 2 OTHERS WILL RETIRE. DONT EXPECT ANY PUBLIC ADMITTANCE OF WRONG DOING. DONT FORGET OUR WONDEROUS LEADER IS FROM A CLAN WHO THINK THEY CAN FACE DOWN TRIBUNALS. WE WON THEY JUST CANT MAKE IT PUBLIC.