ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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Scurvy, there is a law against it; it's an EU law called the Working Time Directive, covering general employment rights and restrictions. Unfortunately they can get around it as the staff are required to keep a transport timetable going!
Reference the problems in Oz, is it as bad as I've heard? Did the ASA Global Recruitment Drive not sort the issues out? Or is it too soon to say?
Reference the problems in Oz, is it as bad as I've heard? Did the ASA Global Recruitment Drive not sort the issues out? Or is it too soon to say?
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change of thread title
thanks for changing the title of this. however, with fridays deadline for a company plan to resolve this issue looming fast, it may be a good idea to hold the old thread title on hot standby
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The Working Time Act is all well and good but it does not preclude against any individual coming in on overtime voluntarily. As we've seen it is necessary for controllers to work overtime in order for full service to continue.
In other words, the Irish ATC service depends on controllers working over their rostered hours. But it seems some would prefer this over-worked controller than no controller at all. You make your decision and you take your chances.
However, I'm not taking that chance. I have a tangible duty of care to all souls on board.
In other words, the Irish ATC service depends on controllers working over their rostered hours. But it seems some would prefer this over-worked controller than no controller at all. You make your decision and you take your chances.
However, I'm not taking that chance. I have a tangible duty of care to all souls on board.
Last edited by goodworker; 29th Feb 2008 at 12:09.
I'm in one of those moods
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G'day Eastcoaster
.
Thats all understood, but surely even the IAA would not challenge individuals who refuse to work due fatigue etc.
As goodworker says, that 'duty of care' is multisided i.e. yes a resonable duty to the travelling public, part of that duty is to ensure that the ATC's are not endangering themselves AND the travelling public by operating fatigued and pissed off, by doing so providing a 'false sense of security' to the operating crews and colleagues .. if you get my drift!
Re: OZ .. the situation is degenerating by the day, resignations, retirements, fatigue, morale ..... all in all, a fast track to hell in a handbag I'm afraid
The O/S recruiting effort IMHO is tantamount to throwing a handful of mud at a burst dam
Good luck with it all Lads and Lasses
.
Thats all understood, but surely even the IAA would not challenge individuals who refuse to work due fatigue etc.
As goodworker says, that 'duty of care' is multisided i.e. yes a resonable duty to the travelling public, part of that duty is to ensure that the ATC's are not endangering themselves AND the travelling public by operating fatigued and pissed off, by doing so providing a 'false sense of security' to the operating crews and colleagues .. if you get my drift!
Re: OZ .. the situation is degenerating by the day, resignations, retirements, fatigue, morale ..... all in all, a fast track to hell in a handbag I'm afraid
The O/S recruiting effort IMHO is tantamount to throwing a handful of mud at a burst dam
Good luck with it all Lads and Lasses
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Face-to-face negotiations between air traffic controllers and the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) are underway in Dublin this afternoon in a bid to end their current dispute.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking50.htm
Hopefully it can be resolved ASAP
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking50.htm
Hopefully it can be resolved ASAP
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Gluton for punishment most likely
Hi all.
Just an atco who is interested in moving to Ireland. Okay, this thread is not the best advert for the working conditions, but was just wondering if there is any point to an external application at the moment? I always thought the union was preventing external applicants (I am based in Uk ay the moment.)
Does anyone know if there is any point to adding my cv to the pile? If so, is it best to contact the IAA directly? (Although they probably have other issues to deal with at the moment!)
Ta muchly,
Just an atco who is interested in moving to Ireland. Okay, this thread is not the best advert for the working conditions, but was just wondering if there is any point to an external application at the moment? I always thought the union was preventing external applicants (I am based in Uk ay the moment.)
Does anyone know if there is any point to adding my cv to the pile? If so, is it best to contact the IAA directly? (Although they probably have other issues to deal with at the moment!)
Ta muchly,
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Hi Goblin,
Well your first port of call should be the IAA. They will, hopefully, be recruiting controllers in the near future. Issues bein sorted out at present. Send in your CV and wait for the reply. One of the reasons that they are stalling on taking direct entries at the moment has got to do with the fact that they, bein the management, won't sort out existing controllers problems....dragging their heals more like!! In a nutshell, we've given a lot and to date, have received very very very little in return. Best of luck and keep your options open.
Well your first port of call should be the IAA. They will, hopefully, be recruiting controllers in the near future. Issues bein sorted out at present. Send in your CV and wait for the reply. One of the reasons that they are stalling on taking direct entries at the moment has got to do with the fact that they, bein the management, won't sort out existing controllers problems....dragging their heals more like!! In a nutshell, we've given a lot and to date, have received very very very little in return. Best of luck and keep your options open.
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If Highlow is still concerned about Irish ATC i respectfully point out that NOW would be a good time for him/her to check the Notams and pay special notice to both Dublin and Shannon airports with regards this evening and tomorrow morning and to note the opening and closing times of said airports..just so there are no sudden suprises this time for the pilots. 
yours as ever
OCK1F
yours as ever
OCK1F
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Highlow may also like to check out the IAA's latest press relaease. Bad, bad boys for having the cheek to actually rest on rest days, and not overwork on overtime. Resting on days off is now deemed to be 'wildcat action'.
Last edited by goodworker; 29th Feb 2008 at 09:35.
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This is a refusal to do overtime as I understand it, as opposed to strike action.
However, according to the IAA statment on their website:
Air traffic controllers have committed under successive national agreements to continued adaptation and flexibility. The overtime arrangement that the controllers are refusing to operate is, and has been for many years, part of that flexibility and was not raised by their union as part of its claim during any stage of the Labour Court process. This only emerged as an issue after the Labour Court Recommendation
So, has there been an unwritten rule as such that controllers should do whatever overtime that was required in the past? Or an official, stated agreement?
If it's the former, then the IAA haven't a leg to stand on.
However, according to the IAA statment on their website:
Air traffic controllers have committed under successive national agreements to continued adaptation and flexibility. The overtime arrangement that the controllers are refusing to operate is, and has been for many years, part of that flexibility and was not raised by their union as part of its claim during any stage of the Labour Court process. This only emerged as an issue after the Labour Court Recommendation
So, has there been an unwritten rule as such that controllers should do whatever overtime that was required in the past? Or an official, stated agreement?
If it's the former, then the IAA haven't a leg to stand on.
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Just seen the 9pm news on Irish tv tonight 6th Feb. Shannon airport was shut by lack of tower staff tonight and nothing else. There was only 1 controller in the tower from 7pm until 9pm and the controller would have broken every law in the book by operating the tower by themselves for the 2 hour period. I believe Dublin has the same problem tonight as Shannon and will shut for a few hours during the night time. Again this event shows up the serious lack of staffing in the IAA that the management claim does not exist and that the current system is dependant upon "Call-Ins"/Overtime.
It is time Impact came out with it's own press release and put and end to the slander issued by the IAA management before Joe Public gets the wrong end of the stick.
It is time Impact came out with it's own press release and put and end to the slander issued by the IAA management before Joe Public gets the wrong end of the stick.
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What?
From the IAA website.
From the school of how to get the ATCO's back on side and not piss anyone off
Date: February 06 2008
Headline: Renewed Unofficial Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers
Following intense negotiations under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission over the last two weeks and despite significant progress the Irish Aviation Authority regrets to advise that there is a further incident of unofficial action by Air Traffic Controllers this time at Shannon Airport. As a result no air traffic control services will be available at Shannon Airport between 7pm and 9pm this evening. This will directly impact on 11 flights. We expect normal services to resume at 9pm. The Authority regrets any inconvenience caused to airlines and the travelling public arising from this unofficial action by controllers.
This is a renewal of the unofficial action that caused 32 flights to be delayed at Dublin Airport on the 25th January. This is the third time in little over two weeks that IMPACT has given an assurance that their members would return to normal working and it is also the third time that Air Traffic Controllers have reneged on this commitment. Safety is the Authority’s highest priority and we will ensure that aircraft and passenger safety is not jeopardised by any unofficial disruption by Air Traffic Controllers.
This unofficial action is being reintroduced notwithstanding an agreement reached between the Irish Aviation Authority and the Air Traffic Controllers Union, IMPACT, at the Labour Relations Commission, involving a process and time schedule to deal with the controllers’ grievances. This process and time schedule is due to continue until Friday, the 8th February. The controllers’ unofficial action is in contravention of the national agreement T-2016, our Continuity of Service Agreement and national industrial relations procedures.
Air Traffic Controllers have benefited from all four phases of T-2016 and in addition to the 10% paid under that agreement have also, through a Labour Court process, involving change over and above “normal ongoing change”, secured a Labour Court Recommendation of an additional 5% pay increase backdated to 1 January 2006 to cover all change up to the end of 2008. That means that Air Traffic Controllers are due to benefit by a premium of 50% over and above all other workers who are party to T-2016. Yet they are engaging in further unofficial action to secure even higher pay increases. This is totally unacceptable.
No staffing issues arose prior to the announcement of the Labour Court award, even during busy months of July/August and Christmas, where maximum staff would be on leave. The current unofficial disruption is orchestrated by controllers in order to ensure that the Authority is short of staff at key periods and for safety reasons the Authority has to restrict traffic or reduce services.
Air traffic controllers have committed under successive national agreements to continued adaptation and flexibility. The overtime arrangement that the controllers are refusing to operate is, and has been for many years, part of that flexibility and was not raised by their union as part of its claim during any stage of the Labour Court process. This only emerged as an issue after the Labour Court Recommendation.
The Authority operates a policy of “Crewing to Workload”. This simply means we allocate greater numbers of staff for busy periods and lesser staff numbers when traffic levels are low. The Authority will continue to maintain sufficient staff numbers to match the controller workloads. A class of 36 student air traffic controllers will commence in March with more starting in early 2009. The last group of controllers graduated in November 2007.
The Authority has spent nearly €200 million since 2000 in providing Ireland with one of the most modern Air Traffic Control Systems with numerous safety features giving our controllers one of the most advanced systems to work with and to handle increased traffic levels.
Ireland has, for the last 21 years, a system of Social Partnership which is the envy of many other economies. This social partnership and successive National Agreements has served the country, business and above all air traffic controllers extremely well.
We operate sophisticated and well oiled industrial relations procedures in the Irish Aviation Authority and have in place, one of the first of its kind, a Continuity of Service Agreement, specifically designed to prevent the type of wildcat action being engaged in by Air Traffic Controllers. This agreement has been in place since 1996 and is reviewed and rolled-over every three years. It conforms to the 1992 Labour Relations Commission - Code of Practice for Dispute Procedures in Essential Services.
The Authority appeals to the controllers to desist from unofficial action which has the potential to cause great inconvenience to airlines and the travelling public and to adhere to the process agreed at the Labour Relations Commission.
ENDS
For further information contact;
Name removed to spare blushes
Corporate Communications Manager
Irish Aviation Authority
Tel:
What a fantastic piece of propoganda. Frau Goebels excelling as usual.
Keep up the good work, I can hardly wait for your next press release
From the school of how to get the ATCO's back on side and not piss anyone off
Date: February 06 2008
Headline: Renewed Unofficial Disruptive Action by Air Traffic Controllers
Following intense negotiations under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission over the last two weeks and despite significant progress the Irish Aviation Authority regrets to advise that there is a further incident of unofficial action by Air Traffic Controllers this time at Shannon Airport. As a result no air traffic control services will be available at Shannon Airport between 7pm and 9pm this evening. This will directly impact on 11 flights. We expect normal services to resume at 9pm. The Authority regrets any inconvenience caused to airlines and the travelling public arising from this unofficial action by controllers.
This is a renewal of the unofficial action that caused 32 flights to be delayed at Dublin Airport on the 25th January. This is the third time in little over two weeks that IMPACT has given an assurance that their members would return to normal working and it is also the third time that Air Traffic Controllers have reneged on this commitment. Safety is the Authority’s highest priority and we will ensure that aircraft and passenger safety is not jeopardised by any unofficial disruption by Air Traffic Controllers.
This unofficial action is being reintroduced notwithstanding an agreement reached between the Irish Aviation Authority and the Air Traffic Controllers Union, IMPACT, at the Labour Relations Commission, involving a process and time schedule to deal with the controllers’ grievances. This process and time schedule is due to continue until Friday, the 8th February. The controllers’ unofficial action is in contravention of the national agreement T-2016, our Continuity of Service Agreement and national industrial relations procedures.
Air Traffic Controllers have benefited from all four phases of T-2016 and in addition to the 10% paid under that agreement have also, through a Labour Court process, involving change over and above “normal ongoing change”, secured a Labour Court Recommendation of an additional 5% pay increase backdated to 1 January 2006 to cover all change up to the end of 2008. That means that Air Traffic Controllers are due to benefit by a premium of 50% over and above all other workers who are party to T-2016. Yet they are engaging in further unofficial action to secure even higher pay increases. This is totally unacceptable.
No staffing issues arose prior to the announcement of the Labour Court award, even during busy months of July/August and Christmas, where maximum staff would be on leave. The current unofficial disruption is orchestrated by controllers in order to ensure that the Authority is short of staff at key periods and for safety reasons the Authority has to restrict traffic or reduce services.
Air traffic controllers have committed under successive national agreements to continued adaptation and flexibility. The overtime arrangement that the controllers are refusing to operate is, and has been for many years, part of that flexibility and was not raised by their union as part of its claim during any stage of the Labour Court process. This only emerged as an issue after the Labour Court Recommendation.
The Authority operates a policy of “Crewing to Workload”. This simply means we allocate greater numbers of staff for busy periods and lesser staff numbers when traffic levels are low. The Authority will continue to maintain sufficient staff numbers to match the controller workloads. A class of 36 student air traffic controllers will commence in March with more starting in early 2009. The last group of controllers graduated in November 2007.
The Authority has spent nearly €200 million since 2000 in providing Ireland with one of the most modern Air Traffic Control Systems with numerous safety features giving our controllers one of the most advanced systems to work with and to handle increased traffic levels.
Ireland has, for the last 21 years, a system of Social Partnership which is the envy of many other economies. This social partnership and successive National Agreements has served the country, business and above all air traffic controllers extremely well.
We operate sophisticated and well oiled industrial relations procedures in the Irish Aviation Authority and have in place, one of the first of its kind, a Continuity of Service Agreement, specifically designed to prevent the type of wildcat action being engaged in by Air Traffic Controllers. This agreement has been in place since 1996 and is reviewed and rolled-over every three years. It conforms to the 1992 Labour Relations Commission - Code of Practice for Dispute Procedures in Essential Services.
The Authority appeals to the controllers to desist from unofficial action which has the potential to cause great inconvenience to airlines and the travelling public and to adhere to the process agreed at the Labour Relations Commission.
ENDS
For further information contact;
Name removed to spare blushes
Corporate Communications Manager
Irish Aviation Authority
Tel:
What a fantastic piece of propoganda. Frau Goebels excelling as usual.
Keep up the good work, I can hardly wait for your next press release
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How does this
equal to
Ohh and since when is 7pm - 9pm the busy period in Irish airspace???
To my fellow Irish atcos....
The current unofficial disruption is orchestrated by controllers in order to ensure that the Authority is short of staff at key periods and for safety reasons the Authority has to restrict traffic or reduce services.
The Authority operates a policy of “Crewing to Workload”. This simply means we allocate greater numbers of staff for busy periods and lesser staff numbers when traffic levels are low.
To my fellow Irish atcos....
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Air Traffic Controllers have benefited from all four phases of T-2016 and in addition to the 10% paid under that agreement have also, through a Labour Court process, involving change over and above “normal ongoing change”, secured a Labour Court Recommendation of an additional 5% pay increase backdated to 1 January 2006 to cover all change up to the end of 2008
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Good luck to all of the atcos .....you've put up with enough **** from the IAA . And as for that bull**** on the IAA website.......amazing how the iaa can write such **** about the people who deserve respect and actually do a worthwhile job within the company
Last edited by alwaysmovin; 10th Feb 2008 at 21:29.
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has anybody been actually asked to come in on overtime??
i haven't recieved one call asking me to do overtime in the past 3 weeks.
unofficial action
, well it will be most definitly OFFICAL action on Friday when the ballot for strike action is sure to be overwhemingly voted for.
they can shove their 5% up their
i haven't recieved one call asking me to do overtime in the past 3 weeks.
unofficial action
, well it will be most definitly OFFICAL action on Friday when the ballot for strike action is sure to be overwhemingly voted for.they can shove their 5% up their
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Good luck guys. The industry I work in depends on "unofficial overtime" to keep the cogs and wheels turning, with manning agreements in regards to meal relief and the likes being slow to be adopted by various management sectors. So slow that it has resulted in "wildcat" action in one location on Monday lunchtime.......