Changing from operations to management
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Changing from operations to management
Operational staff all think managers are a bunch of %4^$$ers or whatever but for those that have taken the plunge and become ATC management, could you perhaps share what prompted hanging up your hat? I know there is the old joke about those who can separate airplanes anymore go on to manage, but there must be some folk out there who made the decision themselves and are excellent managers.
And while we're at it, what actually makes a good Air Traffic Control manager? One who listens to ops staff? Genuine interest in staff?? No ulterior motives/motivation?
And while we're at it, what actually makes a good Air Traffic Control manager? One who listens to ops staff? Genuine interest in staff?? No ulterior motives/motivation?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Worst decision of my life changing to a watch manager. Don't get to plug in any more (except to cover sickness). No early go finishes. Called endlessly on rest days to solve probelms. Expected to cover shifts when someone is sick and just get TOIL (no AAVA). No OJTI or LCE payment. Expected to implament endless company initatives. Expected to attend endless meetings on your days off. News around the company that several watch managers have been off with stress and some have resigned - no surprise there then
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niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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There aren't many people who apply for, or get a watch managers job without knowing what is expected of them, as appears to be the case with FSW1.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a crack at watch management but I've no real desire to go any further than that, I could still plug in despite the other duties and not have to commit myself to losing too much time off whilst getting a pay rise commensurate with the post.
Some people can handle the transition, some can't, but it's no secret that when you're an ordinary ATCO you can always do the manager's job better than they can.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a crack at watch management but I've no real desire to go any further than that, I could still plug in despite the other duties and not have to commit myself to losing too much time off whilst getting a pay rise commensurate with the post.
Some people can handle the transition, some can't, but it's no secret that when you're an ordinary ATCO you can always do the manager's job better than they can.
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What Niknak says was true about 18 months ago. But north of the border I never get time to plug in and we have been told many times in recent months that we are managers and it is expected that we work on our rest days to complete projects. Not so good in management at watch manager level - always dumped on by your MATC. MATC over worked, puts in 12 to 14 hour days. GM and above seems the best way to go if you are considering mangement.
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Flyingwithstyle1,
Why don't you go back to being a ''grunt'' then?
Unless the ultimate goal is onwards,upwards,stardom and beyond.I have never seen any Watch Manager revert downwards.
Dents the ego too much.
Why don't you go back to being a ''grunt'' then?
Unless the ultimate goal is onwards,upwards,stardom and beyond.I have never seen any Watch Manager revert downwards. Dents the ego too much.
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I have seen managers and watch managers who hanged up their hat and went back being a plug-in/plug-out controller. Flywithstyle1 hit the nail on the head. Managers are like prostitutes. The better they perform the more they get scr...wed
God, these fishnets itch
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I know a guy who resigned as a Watch Manager as he was unhappy with all the rubbish that came with it - about 8 or 9 years ago now.
These days I think too much is wanted by the Manager types, not just from the watch managers but also bog standard atco's are expected to do more than turn up, control aircraft successfully and go home at the end of a shift.
louby
These days I think too much is wanted by the Manager types, not just from the watch managers but also bog standard atco's are expected to do more than turn up, control aircraft successfully and go home at the end of a shift.
louby
Unfortunately in a lot of cases the role of the watch manager has changed since being appointed. Which is probably why a lot of WMs have resigned recently.
You should try being a Watch Manager when you are one of three on duty for two positions!
Senior managers need to look at why nobody are applying for these positions!
You should try being a Watch Manager when you are one of three on duty for two positions!
Senior managers need to look at why nobody are applying for these positions!
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I left the ops room to become Operations Manager about 3 weeks ago. So far pretty good, but I'll let you know more if the **** hits the fan and I get stuck in the middle.
For me, the main reason is the family life, so that I can be home at weekends and evenings and not have to plan my holidays a year in advance.
I'm going to keep my license valid for a while though, just in case...
For me, the main reason is the family life, so that I can be home at weekends and evenings and not have to plan my holidays a year in advance.
I'm going to keep my license valid for a while though, just in case...
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Gort, baringa. Klaatu barada nikto!
You may be guided in your research by studying "Narcissistic Personality Disorder".
Whatever you decide, could you make it one or the other? Down here we have managers who try to manage AND control, sometimes on the same shift. Credibility suffers.
We also have controllers who take office jobs and return to the shop-floor for one or two days controlling now and then. We are honoured by their presence and overwhelmingly greatful for their leadership and guidance during their short visits. It must get a bit boring in the offices, no problem if you have a guarantee of a couple of days on the world's most exciting video game as you progress up the ladder of promotion.
Seriously...if you want to be a manager....shut the door as you leave the shop-floor and don't try to empathise with a workforce that you are no longer part of.
You may be guided in your research by studying "Narcissistic Personality Disorder".
Whatever you decide, could you make it one or the other? Down here we have managers who try to manage AND control, sometimes on the same shift. Credibility suffers.
We also have controllers who take office jobs and return to the shop-floor for one or two days controlling now and then. We are honoured by their presence and overwhelmingly greatful for their leadership and guidance during their short visits. It must get a bit boring in the offices, no problem if you have a guarantee of a couple of days on the world's most exciting video game as you progress up the ladder of promotion.
Seriously...if you want to be a manager....shut the door as you leave the shop-floor and don't try to empathise with a workforce that you are no longer part of.
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Nowadays WMs are more Project Managers than anything else. The main reason for this is that in the airports side they just will not resource units properly. They can pressure the WMs as much as they like because sadly for those guys it comes with the territory in new NATS whereas ultimately, us ordinary ATCOs can say no to doing anything outside of plugging in.
As for empathising with the workforce, the hardest thing for people to accept is not that their mate might now be their line manager but rather when their mate has a complete polar shift in personality and attitude and basically becomes a complete pr
ck overnight. How can you have any respect for an individual who would slag off the GM on a daily basis only to get promoted and then sit you down and chant the company bull**** mantra at you? Those are the guys who can never have any credibility and are responsible for the growing divide between staff and management. Unfortunatley in NATS it's seen as the only way to get on.
Those who get promoted into management but still keep the respect of their colleagues don't seem to get any further because they have the balls to sometimes stand up and say no.
Daring to disagree with the way things are being done is contaray to the emperor's new clothes syndrome we suffer from now and you are immediately branded as a trouble maker and "anti NATS".
As for empathising with the workforce, the hardest thing for people to accept is not that their mate might now be their line manager but rather when their mate has a complete polar shift in personality and attitude and basically becomes a complete pr
ck overnight. How can you have any respect for an individual who would slag off the GM on a daily basis only to get promoted and then sit you down and chant the company bull**** mantra at you? Those are the guys who can never have any credibility and are responsible for the growing divide between staff and management. Unfortunatley in NATS it's seen as the only way to get on. Those who get promoted into management but still keep the respect of their colleagues don't seem to get any further because they have the balls to sometimes stand up and say no.
Daring to disagree with the way things are being done is contaray to the emperor's new clothes syndrome we suffer from now and you are immediately branded as a trouble maker and "anti NATS".
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I think most people go into 'management' thinking they can improve the way things are run by using their knowledge of the shop floor job. They think they can do good.
A misguided concept as they quickly find out that as the man in the middle they can actually achieve nothing.
The idea that you can improve family life by having weekends off is soon shot down by the fact that absenteeism and annual leave requests are higher on weekends and public holidays so you get called in endlessly.
After 20 years of trying to drive the unit forward I am hanging up my 'desk' and going back to the coalface as I am not getting any younger and am fed up of getting kicked from both above and below.
Vacancy notice going out next week.
A misguided concept as they quickly find out that as the man in the middle they can actually achieve nothing.
The idea that you can improve family life by having weekends off is soon shot down by the fact that absenteeism and annual leave requests are higher on weekends and public holidays so you get called in endlessly.
After 20 years of trying to drive the unit forward I am hanging up my 'desk' and going back to the coalface as I am not getting any younger and am fed up of getting kicked from both above and below.
Vacancy notice going out next week.
