UK - Canada Crossover
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UK - Canada Crossover
My Girlfriend is Canadian and we plan to marry in around 8 months. She is currently living here in the UK with me.
If I passed NATS selection and worked for them for a few years, would it be possible to use my training and (little) experience to cross over into an ATCO job in Canada? As that is where we plan to settle. However, we don't plan to move to Canada for 5 years.
Are there many jobs available in Canada? is the pay good? She is from Halifax, Nova Scotia - but is willing to live anywhere in Canada.
Tricky one - eh?
Brali.
If I passed NATS selection and worked for them for a few years, would it be possible to use my training and (little) experience to cross over into an ATCO job in Canada? As that is where we plan to settle. However, we don't plan to move to Canada for 5 years.
Are there many jobs available in Canada? is the pay good? She is from Halifax, Nova Scotia - but is willing to live anywhere in Canada.
Tricky one - eh?
Brali.
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It costs around £500k to train from start to finish on the area side. This is exactly why NATS, as a PRIVATE company, should be bonding people for at least 5 years after validation.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Irrespective of the morals involved (if there are any for any individual on this!) at least one TC person has done similar. (Although he may have met her AFTER validating in the frozen north)
You need to PM "MARRIEDACANADIAN" on here!
Of course, you may be best keeping your plans under wraps though - you will probably not be thanked by others who will spend time trg you to validation to only bugger off!
You need to PM "MARRIEDACANADIAN" on here!
Of course, you may be best keeping your plans under wraps though - you will probably not be thanked by others who will spend time trg you to validation to only bugger off!
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Good point... not many applicants me thinks have a canadian fiancee! May i suggest you tell nobody as this may well be a negative come selection!
Your best bet is to move to Canada then train with NavCanada from day one... and good luck, as getting one licence is a tough process never mind doing it twice!!!
Your best bet is to move to Canada then train with NavCanada from day one... and good luck, as getting one licence is a tough process never mind doing it twice!!!
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Thread creep - sorry!
Putting to one side the moral issue of bonding for a moment, it's an interesting figure for training one controller. Can you give a breakdown?
It costs around £500k to train from start to finish on the area side. This is exactly why NATS, as a PRIVATE company, should be bonding people for at least 5 years after validation
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Bra cross-over
As Fidgell said, I would be more advantageous to start with NAV CANADA.
You may recieve more insightful advice if you post your question on the Canadian pilot forum, in the ATS Question Forum, at avcanada.ca.
NAV CANADA's web site has a career section, at navcanada.ca
The term ATCO is not used in North America.
You may recieve more insightful advice if you post your question on the Canadian pilot forum, in the ATS Question Forum, at avcanada.ca.
NAV CANADA's web site has a career section, at navcanada.ca
The term ATCO is not used in North America.
Ohcirrej
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From what I can gather at the moment, the Experienced Controller program with Nav Canada is certainly in a wind down, especially out west (a recent look at the Corporate "who's who" shows no one is actually in the position of managing the program). They were asking for at least 3 years experience and the web site is saying they are looking for Tower Controllers with high density experience. There were rumours doing the rounds as well that some unofficial agreement was reached between Nav Can and NATS with the EXCDS/EFPS contract along the lines of "stop pinching our staff".
IF you were to consider applying straight to Nav Canada, you would have to sit aptitude testing (Saville Holdsworth testing), probably here in Canada (I'm not sure if they administer the test overseas for foreign applicants). As to where you would end up, if you were offered a "VFR" position, you would spend 6ish months training in Cornwall, Ontario act the Nav Can training institute, the posted to one of the many towers around Canada (have a look at this link). IFR (approach/enroute) is conducted in the Area Control Centers across the country now. It could be a little bit of a lottery as to where you end up, but maybe if you sat the test in Gander you might train there.
As to where staff is required, Winnipeg centre is hyper short in both Terminal and some Enroute sectors.
IF you were to consider applying straight to Nav Canada, you would have to sit aptitude testing (Saville Holdsworth testing), probably here in Canada (I'm not sure if they administer the test overseas for foreign applicants). As to where you would end up, if you were offered a "VFR" position, you would spend 6ish months training in Cornwall, Ontario act the Nav Can training institute, the posted to one of the many towers around Canada (have a look at this link). IFR (approach/enroute) is conducted in the Area Control Centers across the country now. It could be a little bit of a lottery as to where you end up, but maybe if you sat the test in Gander you might train there.
As to where staff is required, Winnipeg centre is hyper short in both Terminal and some Enroute sectors.
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The man who has just been promoted to national manager of IFR (as in, everything except tower) training has also been given a few extra roles, including "managing" the experienced controller recruitment program. He has never been a fan of the scheme and will likely let it melt away. Last I heard is that website applications are almost never checked, and now they're claiming that foreign applicants will have problems with security clearances.
In any event, no one can say what the situation will be in 5 years, or even 2 years, time so there's very little point banking on Nav Canada hiring foreign recruits in years to come.
Note that if you do get hired by them as an ab-initio IFR trainee, you'll have to pay for your course (it was 6 months of basic course, now 40 days...) and then will be unpaid until reaching live training. Given the constant course redesigns at one of the centres, and the consequent holding for a course to actually start, that can be a loooooooong time before a salary gets paid.
Jerricho can fill in the blanks!
In any event, no one can say what the situation will be in 5 years, or even 2 years, time so there's very little point banking on Nav Canada hiring foreign recruits in years to come.
Note that if you do get hired by them as an ab-initio IFR trainee, you'll have to pay for your course (it was 6 months of basic course, now 40 days...) and then will be unpaid until reaching live training. Given the constant course redesigns at one of the centres, and the consequent holding for a course to actually start, that can be a loooooooong time before a salary gets paid.
Jerricho can fill in the blanks!
Ohcirrej
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As Mr LnL says (how's the Sand pit mate 
), Nav Canada Ab initios are required to pay for their course (IFR courses at the Centers are something like $3500-4000). You are not paid a salary until you start your live training on the floor. You can PM me for more details.
), Nav Canada Ab initios are required to pay for their course (IFR courses at the Centers are something like $3500-4000). You are not paid a salary until you start your live training on the floor. You can PM me for more details.
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Bl**dy HOT in the sandpit!!! The convicts (sorry...) and Kiwis seem to like the heat - not so good for a blue-skinned northern European. When you started dreaming in Afrikaans even though you've never learned a word of it, you know you've been in the UAE too long!
On the plus side, it's perfectly feasable to drive like a lunatic at all times. Not sure where else in the world you can be in 120kph limit, and pass a police car at 160kph while it has its lights and music on....
On the plus side, it's perfectly feasable to drive like a lunatic at all times. Not sure where else in the world you can be in 120kph limit, and pass a police car at 160kph while it has its lights and music on....
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I hate to correct LnL but the manager taking over the Experienced Controller Program has been 'educated' to some extent. He appreciates that mistakes were made and that, in the past, people were recruited for specialties that they were not suitably qualified for.
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Celeritas - I know perfectly well that said manager is not a fan of me, nor of one or two others who made an enormous effort in crossing an ocean or two to work for Nav Canada. With the proviso that number 2 may have more up to date information (though mine is pretty good!), I stand by my original post.
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LnL
Take it from me. Your info is out of date. The new man has been inspired by recent events and is actually listening to the experiences of those who have been through the program.
Take it from me. Your info is out of date. The new man has been inspired by recent events and is actually listening to the experiences of those who have been through the program.
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Bra
I did indeed meet my missus to be after validating at NATS and then had to transfer to Canada to be with her.
There are no moral issues involved in my opinion if we are talking family. How many people signed the mobile grade agreement on joining the company and are now moaning that they have to move etc cos they don't want to uproot their family. No difference in a person from a particular country wanting to be in that country..and if it is a spouse...what can you do?
Don't put your life on hold for 5 years whilst you find out where it is at. Apply for NATS....don't mention anything about wife's nationality....get your head down and validate...and then see how things pan out. If others have a problem with that...ask them what they would do?
I second what has been said about the experienced controller program though....seems to be winding down a bit....or at least the numbers aren't as big as they were a couple of years ago( in YYZ anyway). The website is out of date now...and the person who used to act as a direct contact has moved on. Best thing to do is if you are visiting Canada in the future with your missus, arrange a trip to a tower or centre and try and speak to someone face to face, find out your options, and let them know the situation.
Best of luck for the future...well done for snagging a Canuck.
I did indeed meet my missus to be after validating at NATS and then had to transfer to Canada to be with her.
There are no moral issues involved in my opinion if we are talking family. How many people signed the mobile grade agreement on joining the company and are now moaning that they have to move etc cos they don't want to uproot their family. No difference in a person from a particular country wanting to be in that country..and if it is a spouse...what can you do?
Don't put your life on hold for 5 years whilst you find out where it is at. Apply for NATS....don't mention anything about wife's nationality....get your head down and validate...and then see how things pan out. If others have a problem with that...ask them what they would do?
I second what has been said about the experienced controller program though....seems to be winding down a bit....or at least the numbers aren't as big as they were a couple of years ago( in YYZ anyway). The website is out of date now...and the person who used to act as a direct contact has moved on. Best thing to do is if you are visiting Canada in the future with your missus, arrange a trip to a tower or centre and try and speak to someone face to face, find out your options, and let them know the situation.
Best of luck for the future...well done for snagging a Canuck.
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From the horse's mouth
Number 2 - LnL is not all that off-the-mark. Educated the new fellow may be; there are foreigners of whom he speaks highly. However, in personal conversation with him, it was made clear that the experienced controller programme is being all-but-disestablished (so no, I can't have a punt at the programme manager's job!). Therefore, if considering NavCan, perhaps better to get here first, and then apply directly.
LnL - as you know the only other place in which one can drive like that with impuntiy is Alberta!
LnL - as you know the only other place in which one can drive like that with impuntiy is Alberta!
