NATS interview process

[pugwash4x4]

Not sure about figures but i was chatting to HR when they phoned to confirm my pass of stage 3, and they told me that last year they had 45,000 applicants and took 134 to college. Of these roughly 2/3 will pass college, and 3/4 will validate.

Having said that, on tower visits to LGW and LHR i was told that their failure rates on validation are much higher than other aerodromes becuase they have a harder job- around 50% fail! guess that's what you get paid more for though.

So out of 45,000 applicants last year roughly 60 people will become ATCOs- so that's about 0.1% of applicants!

3% is far too high over all- that would be 1350 a year validating as full ATCOs- and its nothing like that in reality,

[AJ7]

134 places per year at the college sounds right... figures between 10 and 45 thousand applicants have been mooted around, as someone previously pointed out, a fair amount of people may apply and never show up for the tests.

For what its worth, numbers I heard through the selection process

Stage 1 - 90% fail
Stage 2 - 33% fail
Stage 3 - 33% fail
College - 30-40% fail
Live Training - 30-40% fail

Lies, damn lies, and statistics??

[T250]

If you failed at a point subsequent to the selection process, during training so at college, or during validation, if you failed, are you allowed to re-apply for the trainee role from scratch going through S1/2/3 again the following year?

[InkyPinkyPonky]

College Failures

The stats are worrying, yet not surprising. I would imagine alot of people apply for the position not quite knowing what it entails. the job description on monster was along the lines of 5 GCSE's, Under 35 (i think) and Earn 40k+, so id expect alot of people have a shot of applying without really understanding the dedication or ability required, so the large Stage1 fail rate doesnt surprise me. I mean, the poor guy on friday who asked to leave the test after 2 exams just goes to show...did he not READ the email? There was nothing in that test that the invite didnt pre-empt already. But i suppose stage 1 is geared for this purpose.

My sole worry at the moment is the Failure rate for the College (which Nats publish as 60%) and why this happens? THEN the failure to Validate. Could anyone shed some light on why validations can fail, and what options are there for TATCOs that fail validation.

[Pablo Cuevas]

Hi Seb,

Was at your stage 2, I see you booked your stage 3 for 7 Oct. I also got through and am going down for my stage 3 that day. Did you find out how the other people did?

How you finding your prep for it? Looking through the competencies, some wierd ones in there. How do you display emotional stability and numerical awareness??? Should hopefully be ok though!!

Have you booked a visit anywhere yet? I'm thinking of going to Manchester to see both areas soonish.

Also ddo you remember if we were told that there are only 4 people in each stage 3?

Well done anyway dude!!

Paul

[Pat42]

The 3% statistic is off the NATS website, its the number who get through all 3 stages of selection (not the number of validating ATCO's). See Application process - Jobs and careers at NATS and look under the medical/security clearance tab.

I find it hard to believe that 45,000 or even 10,000 people apply each year. That seems like an extremely high number to me. I read somewhere else that it was more like 5000, which fits the 3% selection pass statistic perfectly if roughly 150 people are starting at the college each year.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics??

Probably true

[olliey]

Hi Paul and Sebby.
I was at stage 2 with you guys as well. i was the one that had done stage one twice. ive got stage 3 on 28th of oct, i want to prepare as much as possible. paul i am pretty certain that there will be six at stage 3. I dont know if they split us into two groups for the group task tho. does anyone know?
well done for getting through!
olly

[Pat42]

Original post by T250

If you failed at a point subsequent to the selection process, during training so at college, or during validation, if you failed, are you allowed to re-apply for the trainee role from scratch going through S1/2/3 again the following year?

I was on a visit to Southampton tower the other day and they employ a number of ATCO Assistants. These are people who assist the active ATCO's in a number of ways, carrying out many tasks that an ATCO would also carry out, but they don't have a valid radar licence and aren't allowed to talk directly to pilots on the radio. I asked them about how you become an ATCO Assistant and they said that NATS generally fulfil their requirement for this role by recruiting ATCO's who have failed to validate or pass the college course, presumably because such people have already had much of the necessary training. So that's one possibility that might be open if the you fail at a later stage... otherwise I wouldn't know.

You could always try contacting HR and see what they say.

[SKOS]

Cottam approach

Quote:

"You cannot draw comparisons with GCSE's and stage 1. Stage 1 is an aptitude test and check of motivation".

Why not?

You may be right but the fact still remains - at least for 50% (Motivation Paper & SDT questions) of stage 1 paper tests, you HAVE TO LEARN to pass.

Every form of test/exam is a check of motivation/ability anyway. If one is NOT motivated in their GCSE's, A' Levels or Degrees to work hard at it, FAILURE is inevitable.

Moreover, another qualified ATCO at Swanwick said in this forum that, even though he now has his tickets, he still CANNOT do cubes but got through all the stages; tests, college, validation through incessant practice.

Except I misunderstoond you, practising for these tests as you would do in any exam (GCSE's or not) would GREATLY improve your chances of success.

[SKOS]

pugwash4x4

Hi pugwash4X4,

Would you be scared then to be posted to Heathrow to validate considering the unfavourable success rates for validation?

By the way, can u pls elaborate on how u went abt arranging visits for LGW and LHR?

tnx

[pugwash4x4]

Hi pugwash4X4,

Would you be scared then to be posted to Heathrow to validate considering the unfavourable success rates for validation?

Hell no, would be a great challenge- just means you have to work a bit harder. the harder (if that's the right word- busier maybe?) grades (ie jobs) get paid more anyway- and its only fair that the guys who HAVE to work harder get paid more.

By the way, can u pls elaborate on how u went abt arranging visits for LGW and LHR?

I waited until i'd passed Stage 2 and contacted both NATS HR and the units directly- i ended up speaking to the same person found the link through from NATS helped the process immeasurably though.

as to initial stage 1 applications- well when i did stage 1 there were 120 in one afternoong being processed. Say 200/day. Rough guess say 20 application days per month (being based on 6 days/month at 3 locations around the country), thats 4000 applicants per month, with 12 months of applications. 48,000 in total!

i don't think its unreasonable to expect 48,000 applicants over a year!

[brian2503]

aerodrome or area

been on the phone to HR and i have found out that i now have the choice of choosing between the aero course starting jan or the area course starting feb.
Its a big decision to make, and i am leaning to one side, but i just thought it would be interesting to see what any of you guys on here made of it and what your preference would be if you were in my shoes.
I know i am probably opening up the old aero vs area war here...lol

[DIAF]

been on the phone to HR and i have found out that i now have the choice of choosing between the aero course starting jan or the area course starting feb.
Its a big decision to make, and i am leaning to one side, but i just thought it would be interesting to see what any of you guys on here made of it and what your preference would be if you were in my shoes.
I know i am probably opening up the old aero vs area war here...lol

Who did you speak with in HR? I found out a few weeks ago that the January aero course in January was booked. I just called now again, to make sure, and they said that it is completely booked.

[Tehvon]

Should I contact HR

Hey guys I did my stage one almost 3 weeks ago. Should I contact them or do you think there is just a delay thanks. Anyone else waiting this long

[T250]

Hell no, would be a great challenge- just means you have to work a bit harder. the harder (if that's the right word- busier maybe?) grades (ie jobs) get paid more anyway- and its only fair that the guys who HAVE to work harder get paid more.

Bear in mind that every unit has its challenges and the work load at Heathrow could be argued to be just as high as at Gatwick - which holds the title of busiest single runway airport in the world, and the ATCOs there have to work very hard especially in peak times to maintain an expeditious flow of inbounds and outbounds on just one runway - whereas at Heathrow I believe there are several ATCOs working the aerodrome controller position, so less workload individually, as well as Heathrow no doubt being at the forefront of new equipment, making the ATCOs jobs there easier, which may take a while to be introduced to less busy units.

It is similar to the London airport approach/director positions which are all a LTC at Swanwick - Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton. They are all band 5 pay (top of the scale), yet City and Luton are much quieter than LHR and LGW, yet get paid the same.....

[Chippy5687]

Tehvron I did my stage one 3 weeks ago and just got the email to say that I had passed so check your email again.

[Pat42]

as to initial stage 1 applications- well when i did stage 1 there were 120 in one afternoong being processed. Say 200/day. Rough guess say 20 application days per month (being based on 6 days/month at 3 locations around the country), thats 4000 applicants per month, with 12 months of applications. 48,000 in total!

i don't think its unreasonable to expect 48,000 applicants over a year!

Blimey, 120 in one day! Where did you have your S1?

There can't have been more than 20 people max when I did mine at the CTC the other week.

[lemmingsjump]

Ooo, I just got my invitation to Stage 2! Very excited, I think I had resigned myself to the fact that I'd failed the online tests and so hadn't got past stage 1 (windows cleaners began banging on my door half way through the calculations...)

Right, now to browse these pages again to find out what stage 2 really involves! From what other people have said I see there's not much people think that can be done for preparation, but does anyone have any advice other than sleep well the night before?

I have no idea which date to choose, suddenly I feel very very busy! All my weekends seem busy and I want time to prepare before I go... but then again if there isn't much to do to prepare then maybe it doesn't matter that mugh


(And thank you everyone here. I would have been so much more clueless without you all! )

[Avoiding_Action]

Original post by T250

If you failed at a point subsequent to the selection process, during training so at college, or during validation, if you failed, are you allowed to re-apply for the trainee role from scratch going through S1/2/3 again the following year?

No you won't be able to. If you get chopped it's because they have decided that you won't be able to validate or pass the college course. They wouldn't then invest more money in you by training you once again after deciding against it the first time. You would normally get offered a recourse or a chance to re-sit a validation board.

[SebbyK]

Olliey and Paul

Guys congrats!!!

I was wondering how everyone did. So thats 4 of us that i know passed! Adrian passed aswell and has his stage 3 on the 7th aswell as u and me paul! Olliey shame u didn't book the same day!

I am in the process of booking Stansted.

Paul did you sit next to the girl or Ollie? Sorry just trying to remember which one you are lol

Its awesome that so many of us got through, just 2 others to find out from. According to the fail rate they would have failed.... supposedly!

Seb