Filing VFR flightplans
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Filing VFR flightplans
A couple of queries relating to Flightplans:
Is there any limit as to how far in advance can you file a VFR flightplan in the UK? In particular, could I file today (13th) for flights to/from France planned for the 15th & 16th?
Assuming I can file in advance, and the flights are subsequently cancelled though WX/whatever, would I have to actively cancel the FP's or do they automatically disappear off the system if not activated?
Ta
M9
Is there any limit as to how far in advance can you file a VFR flightplan in the UK? In particular, could I file today (13th) for flights to/from France planned for the 15th & 16th?
Assuming I can file in advance, and the flights are subsequently cancelled though WX/whatever, would I have to actively cancel the FP's or do they automatically disappear off the system if not activated?
Ta
M9
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Mariner9,
You CAN file a VFR plan 2-3-4 days in advance....but
It MAY be held at the ATC unit until the day before flight OR
It COULD be filed and the recieving unit not notice the date and bin it
At Manch, we [try and] do the first option.
Hope this helps
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
You CAN file a VFR plan 2-3-4 days in advance....but
It MAY be held at the ATC unit until the day before flight OR
It COULD be filed and the recieving unit not notice the date and bin it
At Manch, we [try and] do the first option.
Hope this helps
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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You can file your plan with Flight Clearance well in advance of you flight but they will not process it until 0001z of the day of you flight. (Please mark the DOF clearly in the Field 18)
You flight plan will remain in the system for the day of the flight.
It is the PIC responsibility to inform Flight Clearance of any delays or cancellations.
You flight plan will remain in the system for the day of the flight.
It is the PIC responsibility to inform Flight Clearance of any delays or cancellations.
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Filing VFR plans
Down in the Channel Islands we have a number of problems with VFR filing or not in some cases.
If you are only a VFR pilot in my opinion is it not best to file on the day of flight as the met can change a lot from a forecast 48hrs before going and some pilots do not get the latest weather before getting into the air.
We have had a number of flight plans where people do not cancel if they do not go, In France if you have not departed after youd planed etd they will automatically canx plan.
There are the laid down requirements for filing of Plans in one of the CAA publications.
Flying more than a distance from your departures point,
Crossing an International boundary,
Crossing over water,
Entering certain classes of airspce I.E. Class A for one.
This is just some of them.
More and more pilots depart from farm strips and just blast off without any notifaction to anyone one, but it is for there safety that filing a plan, activating it and clossing it are all safety issues.
There have been crashes where pilots get airborne and dont activate there plan and on route have a problem and may lead to loss of live and no one is expecting them so no search and rescue airborne.
In the Channel Islands you cannot depart with out a flight plan but the amount of aircraft comming in to the Channel Islands landing or transiting without a plan the numbers are increasing.
Maybe some pilots have not been tought who to file an airborne flight?
If you get airborne without a plan in the system file one with an ATC unit and get it activated.
Always carry a blank flight plan with you as you will find when filing an airborne plan it makes it easy for the ATC unit.
Find out telephone numbers of parent ATSUs a file a plan over the phone the activate with the F.I.R. when airborne.
Filing flight plans do help to save lives if any overdue action need to be taken if you ETA is out by a long time get it updated.
In Jersey a number of years ago a Cherokee filed a flight plan from Beligum taking one hour thirty minutes another Cherokee filed a flight plan taking two hours thirty the second one was the correct time so if the first aircraft got airborne without ATC noticing the wrong elapsed time overdue action would have taken place after ETA plus 30 minutes.
So every VFR pilot must act in a thoughtful way and respect others.
In France they can be very hot on overdue aircraft and the cost alone so beware.
To sum this up File a plan at the correct time after checking the latest weather.
Activate it,
Do- not forget to close it when you arrive this only applies if no ATC at desternation.
So all in all happy and safe flying.
Crossing an international boundary,
If you are only a VFR pilot in my opinion is it not best to file on the day of flight as the met can change a lot from a forecast 48hrs before going and some pilots do not get the latest weather before getting into the air.
We have had a number of flight plans where people do not cancel if they do not go, In France if you have not departed after youd planed etd they will automatically canx plan.
There are the laid down requirements for filing of Plans in one of the CAA publications.
Flying more than a distance from your departures point,
Crossing an International boundary,
Crossing over water,
Entering certain classes of airspce I.E. Class A for one.
This is just some of them.
More and more pilots depart from farm strips and just blast off without any notifaction to anyone one, but it is for there safety that filing a plan, activating it and clossing it are all safety issues.
There have been crashes where pilots get airborne and dont activate there plan and on route have a problem and may lead to loss of live and no one is expecting them so no search and rescue airborne.
In the Channel Islands you cannot depart with out a flight plan but the amount of aircraft comming in to the Channel Islands landing or transiting without a plan the numbers are increasing.
Maybe some pilots have not been tought who to file an airborne flight?
If you get airborne without a plan in the system file one with an ATC unit and get it activated.
Always carry a blank flight plan with you as you will find when filing an airborne plan it makes it easy for the ATC unit.
Find out telephone numbers of parent ATSUs a file a plan over the phone the activate with the F.I.R. when airborne.
Filing flight plans do help to save lives if any overdue action need to be taken if you ETA is out by a long time get it updated.
In Jersey a number of years ago a Cherokee filed a flight plan from Beligum taking one hour thirty minutes another Cherokee filed a flight plan taking two hours thirty the second one was the correct time so if the first aircraft got airborne without ATC noticing the wrong elapsed time overdue action would have taken place after ETA plus 30 minutes.
So every VFR pilot must act in a thoughtful way and respect others.
In France they can be very hot on overdue aircraft and the cost alone so beware.
To sum this up File a plan at the correct time after checking the latest weather.
Activate it,
Do- not forget to close it when you arrive this only applies if no ATC at desternation.
So all in all happy and safe flying.
Crossing an international boundary,
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More and more pilots depart from farm strips and just blast off without any notifaction [sic] to anyone one
Tim
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Many [many] moons ago, I was working in the Flight Briefing Unit at Manch. We had a visit by a couple of HM Customs Officers.
HMC "Right sir, it is true that in this area we have Manchester and Liverpool Airports."
Me "Well...yes for Airliner types"
HMC "Pardon"
Me "Well, there's Barton,1/2d Green, Sleap to name but a few"
HMC "They DO file a flight plan, though?"
Me "Sometimes.....Then there is the guy who 'books out' to Kent, and goes via Belgium"
HMC is getting paler by the second
Me "Don't forget all those 'Farm Strips' they don't speak to anybody"
Him and mate left PDQ. Was it a coincidence that "Customs Regulations" were relaxed a couple of years later?
watp,iktch
HMC "Right sir, it is true that in this area we have Manchester and Liverpool Airports."
Me "Well...yes for Airliner types"
HMC "Pardon"
Me "Well, there's Barton,1/2d Green, Sleap to name but a few"
HMC "They DO file a flight plan, though?"
Me "Sometimes.....Then there is the guy who 'books out' to Kent, and goes via Belgium"
HMC is getting paler by the second
Me "Don't forget all those 'Farm Strips' they don't speak to anybody"
Him and mate left PDQ. Was it a coincidence that "Customs Regulations" were relaxed a couple of years later?
watp,iktch
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Slightly off topic, but can any ATCOs out there explain why there is such a large chunk of (or for that matter, any) Class A for the Channel Islands and right down to the ground (well, sea)? It's not like it's got the traffic of LHR and so required for safety purposes
I don't particularly object to it, as the SVFR minima for IMC rated pilots isn't that high and generally won't prevent GA flights getting in - but I can't understand the purpose of it.
24R
I don't particularly object to it, as the SVFR minima for IMC rated pilots isn't that high and generally won't prevent GA flights getting in - but I can't understand the purpose of it.
24R
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24Right
Is it not nice and safe to know you are under the big eye, and be in controlled airspace than outside as there tends to be a lot of near hits in uncontrolled airspace and none we hope in controlled.
Safer flying under the eye of radar must be a boost than the possibily of some cumulo granite or hill to hit when people go IMC.
Safer flying under the eye of radar must be a boost than the possibily of some cumulo granite or hill to hit when people go IMC.
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It does indeed instil in me a warm and cozy feeling and I wouldn't think about doing the crossing without being in touch with a friendly ATCO and his/her RADAR, but that isn't really the issue here, which is why is this large, relatively unused chunk of airspace Class A?
24R
24R
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Historical, mainly, I should think. Although regulated by the UK CAA the CI have their own rules and regs. There was also talk that it kept the French military out . . . ! 
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Good to know there's some good in it then
But if it is just a historical hangover, it's strange that it has survived, given that notwithstanding the beliefs of many of us GA flyers, controlled airspace doesn't only grow. It has been known to shrink in the (perhaps distant) past where considered unjustified by the number of movements. And it doesn't get much more controlled than Class A to SFC.
One assumes that there is some reason for it, as the controllers often give SVFR clearances not above 1500 or 2000 ft, which I for one find not a little scary in a single - if the donkey stops options are extremely limited at this height. The implication seems to be that for safety grounds non-IFR traffic needs to be kept out of the way of something (although I've never seen any significant commercial traffic in the zone near these altitudes except Islanders - and they hardly constitute major commercial traffic - and then usually within the Class D areas around the Islands), so I'm still at a loss as to the point. If the issue really was safety, GA would be allowed to transit at a sensible altitude.
24R
But if it is just a historical hangover, it's strange that it has survived, given that notwithstanding the beliefs of many of us GA flyers, controlled airspace doesn't only grow. It has been known to shrink in the (perhaps distant) past where considered unjustified by the number of movements. And it doesn't get much more controlled than Class A to SFC.
One assumes that there is some reason for it, as the controllers often give SVFR clearances not above 1500 or 2000 ft, which I for one find not a little scary in a single - if the donkey stops options are extremely limited at this height. The implication seems to be that for safety grounds non-IFR traffic needs to be kept out of the way of something (although I've never seen any significant commercial traffic in the zone near these altitudes except Islanders - and they hardly constitute major commercial traffic - and then usually within the Class D areas around the Islands), so I'm still at a loss as to the point. If the issue really was safety, GA would be allowed to transit at a sensible altitude.
24R
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24right
The Channel Islands airspace is from 49 degrees north to 50 degrees north and allmost 2 degrees west to 3 degrees west in size upto 19500 feet.
The Zone on average has 400 to 500 movements in a sixteen hour period which equates to 25 to 30 movements an hour some hours are more and some are less.
These aircraft can range from a Cessna 152 to a Boeing 757 or Airbus 320 or similar types of aircraft so a wide variety of speeds have to be taken into this.
If it was not class A airspace maybe some one would make a suggestion on the type it should be???
The Zone on average has 400 to 500 movements in a sixteen hour period which equates to 25 to 30 movements an hour some hours are more and some are less.
These aircraft can range from a Cessna 152 to a Boeing 757 or Airbus 320 or similar types of aircraft so a wide variety of speeds have to be taken into this.
If it was not class A airspace maybe some one would make a suggestion on the type it should be???
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Thanks for the responses.
As I said, I don't have a major issue of principle over the Class A, just a feeling that it's something of a hammer to crack a nut. It's interesting to see the movement numbers, and in principle that might justify Class A, but my feeling is that it can't be worse than MAN or LHR and even there the Class A is stepped and not just a blanket covering. Sure there are 737s, but not at sea level or for that matter at 5000' by ORTAC. Basically, I just can't see how it can be justified in aviation terms (as opposed to political terms).
Mark - thanks for the thread link. I know how annoying it can be for the same topics to be replayed. I did search before posting, but clearly used the wrong terms as it didn't show up this posting. It's certainly interesting and seems to confirm the view that it is largely historic, designed in part to keep French military under control and it suits the Islands - whatever its current justification (or not) in aviation safety terms.
Thanks everyone for your helpful replies; I am now better informed.
24R
As I said, I don't have a major issue of principle over the Class A, just a feeling that it's something of a hammer to crack a nut. It's interesting to see the movement numbers, and in principle that might justify Class A, but my feeling is that it can't be worse than MAN or LHR and even there the Class A is stepped and not just a blanket covering. Sure there are 737s, but not at sea level or for that matter at 5000' by ORTAC. Basically, I just can't see how it can be justified in aviation terms (as opposed to political terms).
Mark - thanks for the thread link. I know how annoying it can be for the same topics to be replayed. I did search before posting, but clearly used the wrong terms as it didn't show up this posting. It's certainly interesting and seems to confirm the view that it is largely historic, designed in part to keep French military under control and it suits the Islands - whatever its current justification (or not) in aviation safety terms.
Thanks everyone for your helpful replies; I am now better informed.
24R
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24Right, I quite agree wth your comment. The amount of Class A airspace around the Channel Islands is disproportionate to the amount of traffic. It seems like you have flown half the way to America when you fly from GUR to skery, and there is rarely any other traffic around. It is about 40 miles of totally unnecessary Class A airspace.
The reason is political. Technically from 50N (southwards) the airspace is French, but historically the Channel Islands have had possession of it. I don't pretend to know whether it is "leased" , but I do know that the Island authorities are concerned that if they don't have Class A airspace from 49N to 50N, the French will grab it back, and the Islands, particularly Jersey, will lose out financially, as they currently receive a lot of money from Eurocontrol.
So it looks like we are stuck with this chunk of airspace, but surely they could make it all Class D under FL100,and just leave it lass A from FL100 to FL 195?
Fortunately, the Jersey ATC are excellent and very helpful, so no one should ever fear flying to Jersey just because there is this controlled airspace.
The reason is political. Technically from 50N (southwards) the airspace is French, but historically the Channel Islands have had possession of it. I don't pretend to know whether it is "leased" , but I do know that the Island authorities are concerned that if they don't have Class A airspace from 49N to 50N, the French will grab it back, and the Islands, particularly Jersey, will lose out financially, as they currently receive a lot of money from Eurocontrol.
So it looks like we are stuck with this chunk of airspace, but surely they could make it all Class D under FL100,and just leave it lass A from FL100 to FL 195?
Fortunately, the Jersey ATC are excellent and very helpful, so no one should ever fear flying to Jersey just because there is this controlled airspace.
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Riverboat
I do agree with some of your comments.
The Jersey Zone is not all within the French FIR ,15 percent is within the UK FIR and the rest 85 percent is within the French this is due to the EGTT-LFRR
FIR boundary does not run along 50 degrees north.
At 50 north 2 west it this is correct when in gets to 3 west it is a 4950 North all maps show this quite clearly.
So Jersey does not receive all the route charges from the French portion of Eurocontrol.
There was an issue from the French in Paris a number of years why do we pay this to Jersey.
The Controllers in Brest would need a lot more staff to handle the Zone traffic so they do not want it.
The whole of the Zone is not all class A around the Islands you will find area of class D airspace.
At least from a private pilots view it is nice to have the comfort zone of being under radar all the time and will take the pressue of some pilots if the vis does go down they can concentrate on flying the aircraft.
I far as i am aware they will not bight if every one abides by the rules laid down file a flight plan get it activated and call well before for entry into class A airspace.
These rules apply to all flights into class A so if every one does play by the rules and class A controller will shout back and not allow entry in the class A.
The Jersey Zone types of traffic has changed over the last twenty to thirty years form aircraft operating F090 to F130 but now with all the executive jets operating in and out of the Zone as well as all the Dash Q400s these aircraft are all fighting for the higher levels it would help if the Channel Zone went up to F250 which is the top of the lower Brest sector.
The Jersey Zone is not all within the French FIR ,15 percent is within the UK FIR and the rest 85 percent is within the French this is due to the EGTT-LFRR
FIR boundary does not run along 50 degrees north.
At 50 north 2 west it this is correct when in gets to 3 west it is a 4950 North all maps show this quite clearly.
So Jersey does not receive all the route charges from the French portion of Eurocontrol.
There was an issue from the French in Paris a number of years why do we pay this to Jersey.
The Controllers in Brest would need a lot more staff to handle the Zone traffic so they do not want it.
The whole of the Zone is not all class A around the Islands you will find area of class D airspace.
At least from a private pilots view it is nice to have the comfort zone of being under radar all the time and will take the pressue of some pilots if the vis does go down they can concentrate on flying the aircraft.
I far as i am aware they will not bight if every one abides by the rules laid down file a flight plan get it activated and call well before for entry into class A airspace.
These rules apply to all flights into class A so if every one does play by the rules and class A controller will shout back and not allow entry in the class A.
The Jersey Zone types of traffic has changed over the last twenty to thirty years form aircraft operating F090 to F130 but now with all the executive jets operating in and out of the Zone as well as all the Dash Q400s these aircraft are all fighting for the higher levels it would help if the Channel Zone went up to F250 which is the top of the lower Brest sector.
