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Hold Short - Forever!

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Hold Short - Forever!

Old 10th Aug 2005, 18:43
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Hold Short - Forever!

In the U.S. we have a procedure: Taxi into Position and Hold (TIPH) which I believe is similar to the "Line up and Wait" used elsewhere.

Now, this proposal by the FAA.

This is a union press release, not an FAA statement, but it could point to a major change in the way traffic is worked in the U.S.
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Old 10th Aug 2005, 19:37
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So where does the Union get its information?

Where's the NPRM?
Old 10th Aug 2005, 21:11
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"Line up and Wait"???

Good God! Next thing you'll be clearing aircraft to land only when the runway's clear!!
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Old 10th Aug 2005, 22:50
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Angry Danger, Danger!

Taxi into position and hold, must be banned from the entire universe!

If I tell American pilots, to taxi to holdingposition RWY 17, 50% of them will reply:"Taxi into position and hold!"


Why the word wait! I\'ll tell you why!
If you tell an a\\c to line up, he could come back and say:"Are we cleared for take off?" Often when you do not need any questions, because you are busy with other things!

If you tell him to wait, he knows that there will be a short delay.

What about this one:

"BEHIND landing Airbus 340, line up and wait BEHIND"

Why the behind x 2? Because one is not enough! I have heard about pilots entering the rwy, even though they answerd line up behind!
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Old 11th Aug 2005, 10:57
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The 2 x "behind" is in the event of a clipped tx. Many controllers (and pilots for that matter) start to talk as they depress their tx button/switch thus clipping all or part of their first transmitted word. At the same time many can be too quick to acknowledge and step on the end of a tx, especially as we no longer use "over". I appreciate that at many airports and ATCCs you have to be quick to get a word in, but I urge all of you who have never considered this aspect to learn the art of talking one good second AFTER depressing the tx button and not to be too quick on the draw when acknowledging a tx.
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 23:18
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They don't need an NPRM for this, they are not changing a FAR. This is just a handbook change and they are doing with a GENOT. What the GENOT says is that ATM's must look at TIPH for thier airport and justify it's use. Some ATM's have stated that they are just going to terminate it and not do the work to justify it.


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