Swanick...can we boldly go?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: france
Swanick...can we boldly go?
As ex blip driver Aries Sim at LATCC and now FO with regional carrier, I was wondering if the new centre was ready for visitors yet? I know several pilots would be very keen to see the other side, and my limited experience at LATCC has given me such an invaluable understanding of how things work, and assumptions made, I think our bunch could really get a lot out of it.. .I could organise a jolly in the future, but depends whether you guys are still playing with your new toys down there.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Personally I don't see why not. Looking down from the balcony isn't gonna hurt anyone, and the ops room itself is so darned BIG a few visitors at a time probably wouldn't hurt either.
I have memories of crowds of visitors around the old Worthing Suite at LATCC (sniff!) which definitely were not always welcome, particularly when it was busy (most of the time). The same cramped conditions don't apply to NERC.
However, while the operational ATCOs and ATSAs probably won't have a problem with a few aviation type visitors, the management will take a different view.
You see, you may actually end up talking to the staff and finding out the truth about NERC and that would not do, would it? You might get to hear first hand how bad the RT is, how poor the Headsets are, and just how difficult it is to read what is in the FDE / FFP windows. Then the truth would really be out and I'm not sure management are prepared to be so open just yet. At the moment they can pass all the problems off as "the moans of just a few" (see the NERC..so far thread).
Anyway here's a plan for you. Ring the LACC switchboard (01489-572288) and ask to speak to someone about visiting. Explain who you are and why you'd like to come. When they say "no way", just say thanks and hang up. Then ring the number above again and ask to speak to the ATC Watch Managers DESK. Ask again and you might notice a complete change of attitude.
No guaratees, but give it a go and let us all know how you get on.
Rgds BEX
I have memories of crowds of visitors around the old Worthing Suite at LATCC (sniff!) which definitely were not always welcome, particularly when it was busy (most of the time). The same cramped conditions don't apply to NERC.
However, while the operational ATCOs and ATSAs probably won't have a problem with a few aviation type visitors, the management will take a different view.
You see, you may actually end up talking to the staff and finding out the truth about NERC and that would not do, would it? You might get to hear first hand how bad the RT is, how poor the Headsets are, and just how difficult it is to read what is in the FDE / FFP windows. Then the truth would really be out and I'm not sure management are prepared to be so open just yet. At the moment they can pass all the problems off as "the moans of just a few" (see the NERC..so far thread).
Anyway here's a plan for you. Ring the LACC switchboard (01489-572288) and ask to speak to someone about visiting. Explain who you are and why you'd like to come. When they say "no way", just say thanks and hang up. Then ring the number above again and ask to speak to the ATC Watch Managers DESK. Ask again and you might notice a complete change of attitude.
No guaratees, but give it a go and let us all know how you get on.
Rgds BEX
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
Actually the reason that visitors are currently discouraged is so that the operational staff are not distracted in their new environment. Similarly the 30% reduction in flow rates is to allow the controllers to get used to the new environment. Reason flow wasn't increased after the first 10 days was that not all controllers had operated on all their sectors, so it was kept on to let everyone get familiar.. .Sorry Bexil but to say that management are keeping people out for fear of what they might discover is pure tosh and poppycock, its to protect the delicate flowers that are our ATCO's. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: I sell sea shells by the sea shore
Aha, so you ADMIT there are problems then!!
So, the fact that RT was so poor, the headsets unreliable, the phones didn't work properly etc etc had no bearing on keeping the flow rates down?
Familiarity had something to do with the decisions to keep rates pegged on 4th FEB and slightly raised on 14th Feb, but the main reason was faulty, unreliable equipment
Has NATS openly admitted that everything at NERC isn't perfect? No. It would gain much more credibilty amongst it's staff if it came out and said something along the lines of "Yes we know there are problems, and we, our Engineers and ATCOs are doing a grand job in fixing it". Instead all we get is "Everything is fine", which patently, it isn't.
BEX
Edited for [sp]
[ 20 February 2002: Message edited by: BEXIL ]</p>
So, the fact that RT was so poor, the headsets unreliable, the phones didn't work properly etc etc had no bearing on keeping the flow rates down?
Familiarity had something to do with the decisions to keep rates pegged on 4th FEB and slightly raised on 14th Feb, but the main reason was faulty, unreliable equipment
Has NATS openly admitted that everything at NERC isn't perfect? No. It would gain much more credibilty amongst it's staff if it came out and said something along the lines of "Yes we know there are problems, and we, our Engineers and ATCOs are doing a grand job in fixing it". Instead all we get is "Everything is fine", which patently, it isn't.
BEX
Edited for [sp]
[ 20 February 2002: Message edited by: BEXIL ]</p>
Beady Eye
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 1
From: UK
BEXIL - . .Aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!! Frustration boils over!!! Now I know why I leave this conf alone after a while, its like banging your head against a wall, its SO GOOD when you stop!!
Yes OF COURSE there are problems!!! Its a major new system, nothing so big and complex can be introduced without there being problems, its just impossible.. .Who is denying that there are problems?? I am working on the helpdesk, I deal with those 'problems' every day!!!!!
Mutter, mutter, mutter, mumble!
Yes OF COURSE there are problems!!! Its a major new system, nothing so big and complex can be introduced without there being problems, its just impossible.. .Who is denying that there are problems?? I am working on the helpdesk, I deal with those 'problems' every day!!!!!
Mutter, mutter, mutter, mumble!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 155
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I'm an ATCO. It seems to me that the basic tools of our job are, R/T ,telephones and headsets. These are not related to NAS at all, therefore if these items are/where not working properly at the start of NERC,someone must have slipped up big time.
