FR BHX Expansion

[The_Bean_Counter]

Michael O'Leary was on radio in Birmingham today talking about expansion from BHX, 2 new routes to Murcia and Girona and increased capacity on Dublin to 5 from 3. Further new routes for next year to be Pisa, Knock and Belfast

[jetstream7]

So...

Thats the Murcia, Knock, Belfast and Pisa that My Travel Lite already fly to, and they also go to Barcelona ? Additional frquency on the DUB where My Travel Lite have decided to compete with Ryanair

Not sure what to make of this, not really suprised Ryanair have chosen to take My Travel Lite on (given the new competition to Ryanair on the BHX-DUB) but suprised there aren't any of the usual selection of Hahn's, Charleroi,s etc proposed?

We'll see.....:hmm:

[Ian Farquharson]

Barcelona (Girona) and Murcia are both daily from 30.10.03 and on the same day BHX-DUB will increase to 5 daily.

30,000 free seats (exc tax) will be on sale shortly and must be booked by 03.09.03.

Looks like MOL was very happy with MYL going to DUB !


Ian

[ALLMCC]

I'll believe the Belfast when I see it! - there have rumours about FR and Belfast for months, years even and still nothing has happened - can anyone confirm that it will be BFS - what about competition for Flybe from BHD?

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Will these new routes be operated by the 737-200's.

BAe 146-100

['PlaneHappy]

Here's the complete article from Ryanair's website. In addition, I have listed the new times and flight numbers (for the MJV and GRO services) at the bottom.

"RYANAIR - TWO NEW DAILY ROUTES FROM BIRMINGHAM TO SPAIN
AND INCREASES DUBLIN FREQUENCY TO FIVE DAILY FLIGHTS
BIRMINGHAM TO BARCELONA & MURCIA £FREE!*
Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 low fares airline, today (20th August 03) announced two new daily routes from Birmingham to Barcelona (Girona) and Murcia with 30,000 Seats for FREE (excluding taxes). Ryanair also announced increased frequency on the Birmingham-Dublin route from 3 flights daily to 5 flights daily starting 30th October 03.

Speaking in Birmingham today, Ryanair’s Chief Executive, Michael O’Leary said:

Ryanair is Europe’s No.1 low fares airline. We have been flying from Birmingham for 10 years linking the West Midlands with Dublin at low fares that no-one else can match. This year, with increased frequency, we will carry 400,000 passengers on the Birmingham-Dublin route; That’s double what we carried last year.

The new daily flights to Barcelona (Girona) and Murcia, are Ryanair’s first low fares routes between Birmingham and Spain, and we expect to carry 100,000 passengers on each route annually. To celebrate we’re offering 30,000 for FREE (excluding taxes), but these seats must be sold before 3rd September next, so passengers should book today at www.ryanair.com. These low fares flights will commence on 30th October 03.

Ryanair is Europe’s No.1 for lowest fares, best punctuality and bestcustomer service!"

The flight times and numbers are detailed below:

FR9286 departs BHX at 0925, arriving into GRO at 1235
FR9287 departs GRO at 1300, arriving into BHX at 1415

FR9124 departs BHX at 1550, arriving into MJV at 1935
FR9125 departs MJV at 2000, arriving into BHX at 2140

For the DUB flights, visit its website.

[Cyrano]

Seems to me a fairly clear message from FR : "compete with us head-to-head anywhere and we'll kill you."

No evidence on the FR booking engine as yet of the promised 5x Dublin flights in November, only a particularly bad 3x daily schedule (last departure from Dublin 1430, first departure from BHX 1340!).

A couple of possibilities here:
- they just haven't finished loading the DUBBHX schedule (hmmm...)
- they've screwed up the schedule load;
- they are waiting to see if their "shock and awe" tactic vs MYL delivers results.

It looks as though one aircraft is doing DUB-BHX-GRO-BHX-DUB starting in the morning and another's doing DUB-BHX-MJV-BHX in the afternoon/evening. However there's an arrival into BHX from MJV at 2140 and no corresponding departure - I assume that sooner or later we'll see a 2205 departure from BHX to DUB?

Jetstream7: you were wondering why there are no Charlerois, Hahns etc? IMHO it's because this is simple competitive response on FR's part, not because they've chosen BHX as a new target city or anything (landing fees far too high for them, for a start). If MYL backs off and (for example) signals that they're going to come off Dublin after a decent interval, I wouldn't expect any of this supposed FR expansion at BHX to happen.

['PlaneHappy]

"they just haven't finished loading the DUBBHX schedule"

Yes, I also noticed that.

The additional BHX-DUB and DUB-BHX flights are listed in its timetable, though.

[Cyrano]

PlaneHappy -

I'm only seeing 3x daily when I look at the Ryanair online winter timetable on their site. Am I missing somthing?

C.

['PlaneHappy]

C,

You are right. It's strange, though, because I could have sworn that I saw its additional flights. Ah well.

[brabazon]

MTL press release response:

20th August 2003
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Ryanair flatters MyTravelLite by trying to copy its low fares and service.

MyTravelLite, Birmingham’s No1 low fares airline, today commented on Ryanair’s decision to imitate MyTravelLite, which already offers unbeatable flights to Dublin, Barcelona, Murcia and 8 other destinations from Birmingham.

Vanessa Lenssen, Managing Director MyTravelLite said: “We’re the biggest in Birmingham with 11 routes and we know that we’ve been getting it right. Our passenger figures and customer satisfaction surveys have been telling us that customers love our low fares, our service, our big choice of destinations and flying on our state-of-the-art Airbus aircraft. Not to mention the convenience of direct routes to some of the biggest tourist hotspots in Europe – not secondary airports like Ryanair’s Girona which is miles away from Barcelona.”

“They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We only launched our Dublin route less than two weeks ago and we’re flattered that we’ve been able to force Ryanair to react so quickly. Today’s news shows that Ryanair is so desperate to try to grab a piece of the Birmingham market that it is breaking with its usual business model of using secondary UK airports in favour of expanding its existing routes at Birmingham International Airport.

MyTravelLite’s fares are consistently low with lead in fares of £1 one way excluding taxes for flights to Dublin, Barcelona and Murcia. Flights can also be booked through www.mytravellite.com website for MyTravelLite’s new Tenerife and Almeria winter routes.


------------------------------------------------------

['PlaneHappy]

From a consumer's point-of-view, this competition is good: it reduces prices even lower.

Let's compare BHX-MJV departing November 4 and returning November 5.

MTL's total fare, including tax and charges but minus credit card/debt card fees, is £109.50. FR's is £20.45.

Let's now compare BHX-GRO with FR and BHX-BCN with MTL on the same dates.

MTL's total fare, including tax and charges but minus credit card/debit card fees, is £59.59. FR's is £20.45.

I wonder for how long FR will offer these unbelievably good fares. When they disappear, I wonder what the 'normal' early booking fares will be.

[glynn-kayes]

all very well but how much does it cost for a taxi or bus from gro to barcelona centre??? and how long is the journey???

[stevobeevo]

Plane happy,

Watch out. FR launched BOH-GRO last wednesday and the cost of a seat one way over Xmas and at easter is £89.99. Not the £1 from BHX. Normal lead in on the route is £28.99.

Competition is good for the consumer but FR's plans here must be to push MyTravel off certain routes. :hmm:

['PlaneHappy]

"FR's plans here must be to push MyTravel off certain routes."

Nothing wrong with that, so long as the competition is not deemed by the regulatory officals to be unfair. In fact, this preditory pricing might keep prices down for longer. Let's hope so, anyway!

With direct competition on the MJV route and indirect competition on the GRO service, FR might indeed offer lower prices than MTL for longer. These loss-leading flights will attract price-conscious travellers whilst hopefully securing a solid passenger base of loyal and frequent travellers.

In short, FR is rightly seeking to reduce MTL's market share on both routes, thereby ideally resulting in the carrier withdrawing from them both. If FR can do this without abusing its position, then good. If it cannot, i.e. by offering absurdly and unbelievably low prices because of its size which MTL cannot match (on the routes on which both carriers operate) then it must be stopped.

"all very well but how much does it cost for a taxi or bus from gro to barcelona centre??? and how long is the journey???"

GRO is about 12kms from the centre of Gerona, quickly reachable by taxi or bus.

There are 12 buses per day between the centre of Barcelona and GRO; these take about 1 hour 10 minutes.

You could, of course, take a taxi or a bus into the centre of Gerona and then a frequent train from there to Barcelona. This would, I believe, take longer.

Let's not forget that GRO does indeed serve the entire Costa Brava, not just Barcelona. As such, if you're staying somewhere in Northern Spain or further north along the coast, it might be easier, quicker and cheaper to fly into and out of GRO rather than BCN.

[virginblue]

The 11th commandment:

"Thou shallst not upset Michael O'Leary".

[brabazon]

The booking engine now has 5 flights a day including Cyrano's predicted 2205 BHX-DUB!!

Here are the timings:

DUB - BHX
0640 - 0745
0805 - 0900
1220 - 1315
1430 - 1525
1820 - 1915

BHX - DUB
0810 - 0905
1340 - 1435
1440 - 1535
1940 - 2035
2205 - 2300

[Cyrano]

Well, glad to see (thanks Brabazon!) that I got *one* thing right today anyway! ;)

['PlaneHappy]

Interesting - and quite good - flight times, for both the business person and the tourist.

It would be possible to depart in the morning from either DUB or BHX and have a full day doing business before returning to the respective city in the evening. Whilst this is possible regardless of your starting city, this is especially possible for the BHX-DUB-BHX traveller. Sadly, it is not as good for the DUB-BHX-DUB traveller: the first evening flight is at 1940. Nevertheless, pretty good times.

[U/S President]

stevobeevo: FR's plans here must be to push MyTravel off certain routes
Certain routes?! Do you really think that before MyTravelLite announced its DUB flights, Ryanair management were sitting around saying “do you know what we should do: start Murcia and Barcelona out of Birmingham...”, “yes that something we should get a piece of...”, etc. The only BHX route that Ryanair were/are bothered about is DUB: Ryanair don’t like BHX and don’t particularly care for Spain (until the airports get more independence from AENA anyway). They are doing these routes for two reason only: to punish MyTravelLite and to send another warning to other airlines.
PlaneHappy: so long as the competition is not deemed by the regulatory officals to be unfair
After MyTravelLite announced DUB, Ryanair instantly starting giving away flights for £1. Anybody can see that this was predatory pricing. So why didn’t MyTravelLite hold its fares steady and lodge a complaint with the regulators you ask: because that would take months to be resolved, by which time Ryanair would have won out. So MyTravelLite’s reduced its prices to 50p. Now they’re both falling over themselves to give the flights away for free.

But Ryanair couldn’t leave it at that because they know that MyTravelLite might actually be able to give them a run for their money on a straight BHX-DUB scrap. So they take it to the next level and jump on two routes served by MyTravelLite out of its home base.

So what’s the next step? Scenario 1: Capitulation MyTravelLite makes a behind closed doors deal with Ryanair to drop DUB if Ryanair drops BHX-MJV and BHX-GRO; Scenario 2: See you and raise you MyTravelLite launches an operation out of DUB. Say maybe DUB to BCN, FAO and AGP to choose three destinations at random ;). Using the DC10-10s :cool:. Scenario 3: Doomsday MyTravelLite drops DUB but Ryanair keep its new BHX services anyway (or even launches more) to destroy MyTravelLite and really drive its point home.
PlaneHappy: From a consumer's point-of-view, this competition is good
Fair, sustainable competition is good for consumers. Wild price wars aren’t. Remember four years ago when the supermarkets had their bread war (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/273071.stm) and the price of a loaf was 3p? It couldn’t last and now the prices are 10 times that level. So who benefited?

['PlaneHappy]

Although we are not competition experts, it does, from the surface, appear that FR did indeed act unjustly in substantially reducing its airfares from DUB to BHX and return. But did just BHX benefit from a huge reduction in price? No: many airports, such as STN, LTN, LGW, MAN and LPL, also had .50 Euros or £0.50p deals to and from DUB. Therefore, it could be argued that the reduction in airfares to and from BHX was a part of a wider promotion instead of a direct attack against MTL. (Note: this promotion has, I believe, now ended.)

The launch of both GRO and MJV from BHX are much harder to justify. Nevertheless, it could be aruged that GRO was expected due to FR serving this Spanish destination from other UK airports (such as STN, PIK and BOH). But why MJV? It currently does not feature widely in its network. As such, it could be a mere one-off or it could be a part of a wider plot to rid MTL of valuable market share and to gain its all-important consumers. I put my money on the latter.

All of this is, of course, just speculation. Accordingly, we will have to wait until the officials investigate the situation - if indeed they do.

[EGNR]

Scenario 3: Doomsday MyTravelLite drops DUB but Ryanair keep its new BHX services anyway (or even launches more) to destroy MyTravelLite and really drive its point home.

...or, and my apologies to all at MYT/MYL for being the one to say it; those hard-done-by investors in MyTravel Group see the company launching headlong into another opportunity to p*ss a load of money that they don't have up the wall and threaten to withdraw their support for the entire group unless MYL do something pretty drastic in order to sort this thing out pretty sharpish.

[stevobeevo]

u/s president,

Thats exactly what I was refering to. I just did it in a friendlier manner. Everyone knows why FR and Mytravel Lite are at wars, just as everyone knows that FR plan to push Flybe around. :p

[ALLMCC]

Reading these posts makes me wonder is it not time that somebody took a stand against Ryanair - they seem to bully anyone who dares to cross themm - it appears they doesnt care whether airports lose money as long as they reaps it in - there is competition and there is bullying - all depends on how its done!

Sooner or later somebody will tell them to shove their airline where the sun doesnt shine & the sooner the better!

[U/S President]

Even the BBC has picked up the story now: Ryanair battle takes off (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3166371.stm).

In the best traditions of impartial journalism, two paragraphs are given over for MOL to advertise Ryanair whilst MyTravelLite are not given space to comment; two paragraphs are used to give Ryanair’s latest pax figures whilst MyTravelLite accession to BHX’s biggest carrier goes unmentioned; and the ‘related internet links’ points BBC readers to ryanair.com but not mytravellite.com.

Fortunately Birmingham’s Evening Mail (http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=13316625&method=full&siteid=50002) is less sympathetic to MOL after his crazed attack on the airport itself:

Michael O’Leary, the outspoken boss of no-frills airline Ryanair, unleashed a blistering attack on Birmingham Airport yesterday claiming it had been passed over by the air flight industry because of a refusal to embrace low-fare airlines. Mr O’Leary pointedly accused airport chiefs of “hanging off the coat-tails of British Airways”... a spokesman for Birmingham Airport dismissed Mr O'Leary's attack as “headline grabbing as both FlyBe and MyTravelLite are now bigger operators out of Birmingham than BA”.

A source close to Birmingham Airport said the Girona flight might not even be allowed to be called a Barcelona service under aviation industry laws.

Born with the Blarney Stone in his mouth he courts controversy wherever he goes and, in one of the most cut-throat sectors in civil aviation, his swashbuckling, caviller attitude angers more people than it impresses. In one swipe of his tongue yesterday he alienated Birmingham Airport, British Airways and every low-cost airline in the country – and couldn’t even resist a side swipe at Aston Villa.
If MOL hates BHX so much it makes you wonder why he’s starting the new services. Unless of course he’s only doing it to warn MyTravelLite off DUB :hmm:. Well if every Villa fan boycotts Ryanair, it’ll be a start ;).

[carlos vandango]

With regard to DC10's doing low cost in winter? don't think so.
As for MYL's decision to take RYR on in Dublin well, on the face of it this is at best fundamentally flawed. RYR have money to burn compared to MYL. Either MYL have an ace to play or they'll suffer the same fate as GO when they tried steppin on O'leary's patch.
Personally, I bid good luck to MYL as I have zero time for the Dublin bully-boy..but he didn't get where he is by playing fair with anybody so he's not going to start now. The short term winners will be the passengers. They may enjoy it while it lasts

[U/S President]

carlos vandango: With regard to DC10's doing low cost in winter? don't think so.
The little face thingies and heavy sarcasm in my suggested ‘Scenario 2’ were intended to convey the fact that the idea was tongue-in-cheek. Evidently this was not picked-up.
EGNR: unless MYL do something pretty drastic in order to sort this thing out
If someone offered MyTravelLite the chance to start over from 10th August, would they still launch DUB? Probably not. But if they pull off DUB now will Ryanair follow their retreat and pull off BHX-MJV and BHX-GRO? Probably not. Basically, once you’ve poked the tiger with a pointed stick and its trying to kill you, what do you do to calm it down again :uhoh:? Does anybody have any suggestions for what ‘drastic’ action they should take to extract themselves from this sticky situation :confused:.

[carlos vandango]

Maybe those DC10's should be used to Run a low cost transatlantic shuttle!:p
It'll be very interesting to see what way this scenario plays out. I'm baffled as to why a fledgling LCC would dip its toe into such shark infested waters. Maybe O'leary will try to run MYL into the ground and buy it for £1 ?. LCC's have tended not to tread on each other's patch in the past. Good luck anyway to MYL..I think they're gonna need it. :ugh:

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Well if every Villa fan boycotts Ryanair, it’ll be a start

What both of 'em....?

At risk of alienating the Aston Vanilla Fans.

:uhoh:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I well remember Go starting Scotland to DUB services for £20. Within an hour of the press release MOL was offering the route for £5. Go dropped to £10 and MOL went to a £1.

Less than 6 months later MOL had the route back to himself and a lot of pilots were muttering "told you so". You can either detest his business tactics or applaud them. I can never decide which way to go!

WWW

[stalling attitude]

But isn't Tim Jeans (ex Ryanair) the boss of MYL . I would have thought he more than anyone would know whether or not to take on Ryanair. Maybe he knows something but then maybe i don't.:ok:

[carlos vandango]

Last I heard was that Jeans was now boss of MyTravel Airways. Someone else was brought in to head MyTravel Lite. Not sure how that works as its all under the one AOC. Anyone care to elaborate?

[U/S President]

Since mid-July, Tim Jeans has been the Chief Operating Officer of MyTravel Airways UK, under the new Managing Director Frank Pullman.

His replacement as Managing Director of MyTravelLite is Vanessa Lenssen, who was the Commercial Director of MyTravelLite under Jeans. However, I would say that Jeans is still the figurehead for MyTravelLite, at least in the eyes of the media.

And yes it’s all one AOC. To the paying public MyTravelLite is just a trading name of MyTravel Airways. Internally, MyTravelLite is a separate business unit that ‘buys its flying’ from MyTravel Airways.
stalling attitude: would have thought he more than anyone would know whether or not to take on Ryanair. Maybe he knows something
Well in an interview (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030822/80/e6oes.html) on Friday, this was Jeans’ take on the situation:
I am sure Ryanair would prefer that we just bled to death quietly in the background and then pulled out but that simply won’t happen.

We’re even bigger than British Airways in Birmingham... Ryanair’s response was entirely predictable but is not one that will necessarily see us roll over and run off because they will be unable to dislodge us in our home market.

It’s good for a small start-up to be registering on the radar of the biggest and baddest bully in the playground... this is a battle that will be seen out over the next few years rather than months.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

And I quote.....

We’re even bigger than British Airways in Birmingham...

and Keenair are BIGGER than Emirates in Liverpool!

Bring it on I say.... hehe

:yuk:

[boredcounter]

Do FR have to comply with JAR Ops?
Never did get the answer to that one. Never did understand the buying of a UK AOC.

Good luck MYL, you are gonna need it.


Bored