C310 problems in Kununurra

[flyboy6876]

Heard something on the news earlier about some problems with a C310 in Kununurra. Anyone got any details on this?

[Transition Layer]

From abc.net.au


Plane makes emergency landing
A pilot has been forced to make an emergency landing at Kununurra overnight, after experiencing serious fuel supply problems.

The twin-engine Cessna 310 was on a mail run from Darwin at about 10:30pm AWST yesterday, when it was forced to land 60 metres short of the Kununurra airstrip.

It is believed the aircraft either ran out of fuel or had trouble switching tanks.

The 29-year-old male pilot suffered minor neck and back injuries and was sent to Kununurra District Hospital.

The wings and undercarriage of the $300,000 plane were extensively damaged.

The pilot is expected to submit a statement to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau later today.

[Desert Flower]

Them damn Cessna fuel systems again!! :{

DF.

[Ang737]

Any news on the company the c310 belonged to. Speedy recovering for the pilot....


Ang ;)

[GoNorth]

Believe it was SlingAir's C310. The cone of silence works well in Kununurra. Only a few days after one of their C210s did a wheels up landing too. Wonder what the third thing will be??? :ooh:

[exmexican]

Could it be something to do with the recent influx of "Jandakot Generals" appointed to C&T positions in KU? Their aircraft knowledge, navigation skills (what no NDB in the bush?), selection of decommissioned runways, and superior attitudes provide an almost constant source of merriment.
How do you get this red dirt out of my eppaulettes?

[roach trap]

The only 310 up that way is slingairs that does the night AAE flight to darwin and back

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Excuse my ignorance but what constitutes a ...

Could it be something to do with the recent influx of "Jandakot Generals"
?

sounds most amusing.

[Continental-520]

I believe it means ex employees of Jandakot based companies of varying seniority who have ventures out into the bush to gain management/upper level company experience, but I may well be wrong.

520.

[GoNorth]

Them damn Cessna fuel systems again!!

Nothing wrong with the Cessna fuel system if you follow the flight manual. Don't and it'll bite. Flight manual clearly states aux's only to be used in cruise and only after mains have burnt 90 mins. Doesn't sound difficult to follow to me!

Pilot descended, performed a practice approach all on aux according to inside info. Only problem was endurance in the auxs were about 1min too short. :mad:

[Pete O Heat]

exmexican,

Are these 'Jandakot Generals' the same people that introduced pilots going home early so that they dont have duty time problems? The ones that stood up to non flying management stating that flying over weight is not allowed. Is it these same 'Generals' that pushed for and got a PAY RISE so ALL PILOTS got paid the award. I hope you do not work for the said company. Very short sighted of you if you do....

These same 'Generals also tried to re-intoduce check lists so that accidents of this nature dont happen. Unfortunately the extemely experienced staff have the opinion that check lists are not required if the training is adequate. Gee, that leaves no room for simple human error does it. Especially when your dog tired and not far from home when you tend to get a touch displacent.

exmexican, I hope you have your facts right in regards to the lack of aircraft knowledge, nav skills and runway selection. They are fairly damning comments. I wonder where your getting your assumptions from. It sounds like to me that you are from KU, so maybe you should face up to them :mad: .........

BTW if you want to get the red dirt out of you eppaulettes, simply wash them. But not in the same wash as your whites otherwise the whites go blue......

See ya later alligator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[exmexican]

Pete O Heat ( and I'm guessing your rank would be General)
Oh yay for the Generals and their powers of negotiation and arbitration! Now I get to work MAXIMUM hours for MINIMUM pay!
Well done boys but save the chest-beating for when you achieve something better than minimum conditions for workers.
Great that the pilots get to "go home early to avoid F&D problems". Does this mean that if they stayed to the agreed time, rather than leaving early, they would exceed F&D restrictions? Sounds like more work to be done in this area.
Any pilot that exceeds weight limits foolishly gambles with his own, and his pax, life. Stupid,stupid, stupid, and should not be a management issue. Sadly, it seems like not a bad risk at the time to many pilots under pressure. A few ramp checks might make companies see sense.
If you are working within the framework of F&D and the spirit of the regulations, you should never be "dog tired", especially to the point that you concoct words like "displacent".
Oops gotta go!

Furthermore, regarding "assumptions" I have made:
1. Battery life will be maximised by turning the fuel ON before starting the engine.
2. When on a non-scenic chtr, coastal is not the most direct route KU-KAL. Seriously, it's not a long leg, remember watch, map, ground.
3. Confidence in GA is not fostered by having to tap your pilot on the shoulder and point out that the selected rnwy is no longer in use. The information is available in ERSA, and this example of poor planning and observation(there are trenches dug through it) does not befit an experienced pilot.
Pete, these are things we can look back on, over a few beers and LAUGH! These, and many other incidents, are not the norm, nor the aim in GA, and there's certainly no "hands up" here for never making a mistake, but you've got to laugh. Vigorously denying or defending them doesn't help anyone.
As for calling me a ":mad:" from the anonymity of this forum, well, words fail me.
And your signoff could not be more misdirected. Tee Hee
Cheers

[Woomera]

Now girls - cool it! No childish name calling. OK?

Otherwise someone is going to study Sin Bin architecture. From the inside! :{

W

[Michael Whitton]

more ramp checks ay.......... well unfortunatly i dont think that would work seeing it is the pilot who's own hoogly googlies (excuse the sexism.. none intended) is on the line when they do come up to you.

maybe if the operators where to take the blame when it comes down to it all it might improve the situation but other then that i would just place more pressure on pilots to really "fudge' paperwork.

as for the C310 fuel system..... well 90 out of the main etc etc.. if most pilots knew how it actually wokred it could save alot of hassel.... to many 310's having to emergency land due to "fuel starvation"!!!! Might leave many pilots wonderingwhat that grey mist being vented overboard might be :}

[GoNorth]

Any working pilot that doesn't know their aircraft systems should not be flying. They are suppose to be professional pilots not accidents waiting to happen.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Three hundred grand for a 310???:uhoh: :{

(a mail carrying 310 at that)

[jerrry]

Agree with you GoNorth, never had any probs handling the fuel system either.

Dont know what the preconceived myth is about the "310's fuel system"

[topend3]

indeed, this dude was lucky, incorrect tank use was identified as a possible cause of the 310 crash at Newman a 18 months ago, 4 people died that night.

[Desert Flower]

Dont know what the preconceived myth is about the "310's fuel system"

It's not just 310's. It is all Cessna series with tip tanks - 340's, 402's & 421's. And some aircraft have their own peculiar little quirks. I remember an Adelaide based 402B that caught out every pilot that flew it, because you couldn't run on the aux. tanks for as long as the manual said or it would start to cough & splutter!

DF.

[onya]

Right on Go North,
I've got a heap of time on 402's and 310's and never had a problem. It's a carefree simple system. Can't for the life of me understand how anyone could screw it up. Mind you we'll all read about it when the ATSB report comes out. Maybe it wasn't fuel related. Might have just had too much air in the tanks. Personally, when flying a tip tank cessna that I hadn't flown before, I used to time how long it took from selecting aux's until the engine surged due the tank running dry. Take one minute off that and use that time period every time thereafter. Doesn't get any easier and as long as your vigilant you won't get caught out. Shouldn't be flying the bl00dy thing if you don't understand the fuel system. And as far as that goes who signed off his endorsement???? :suspect:

[404 Titan]

Desert Flower
It's not just 310's. It is all Cessna series with tip tanks - 340's, 402's & 421's. And some aircraft have their own peculiar little quirks. I remember an Adelaide based 402B that caught out every pilot that flew it, because you couldn't run on the aux. tanks for as long as the manual said or it would start to cough & splutter!
If the fuel system doesn’t work as in accordance with the pilot’s operating handbook or flight manual them it should be written up in the maintenance release. There is obviously something wrong with it. I have a lot of experience in Cessna, Piper and Beachcraft twins and while the Beachcraft fuel system is very simple to use, the quantity indicators are shocking. Piper isn’t much better. Now while the Cessna fuel system on aircraft fitted with tip tanks is a legacy of refinements over the years, in my opinion, it is no more complicated to use than a PA30 or PA31. Infact I would say that the PA30 has the most complicated fuel system in terms of pilot management than all the light twins I have flown. A thorough knowledge of the fuel system is a mandatory requirement of all pilots. I just hope that this accident isn’t a result of another pilot not knowing his fuel system inside out.
:hmm:

[Pete O Heat]

Exmexican

I decided to wait until all effects of alcohol subsided before replying to your post. There’s a better chance of it remaining civil that way.

Firstly, sorry for the name-calling, that was totally uncalled for.

Secondly, I did not suggest that there were any duty problems in the past. I merely meant that if five guys were sitting around the table with nothing to do, it is encouraged for two or three to go home and save their duty for when it will be needed. Maybe there was a different system used in the past to have the same effect, but it was not apparent to the JT Major General.

Thirdly, I also did not mean to imply that aircraft were flown over weight in the past. But it is possible (and does happen) for non-flying staff to forget when booking charters/scenic flights that weight restrictions do apply. What I simply meant was that there is now a system in place to help minimise the debacle that occurs some mornings.

Re: Pay rise. You seem to forget that until recently you were being paid BELOW the award. Sure some companies pay above the award, but the best a lot of us can hope to be paid for is at LEAST the award. There are a lot of people out there that don’t even get this. As far as the extra duties are concerned, it is no more that what everyone was already doing anyway.

Now luckily this is a rumour forum my friend, otherwise I would have been very offended. Why don’t you come and see me during the week. We will have that beer you were talking about and I will tell you what really happened (although you got me on the fuel… Damn the fuel cock). That way mate we can finish off the season and enjoy a cold beer or two amicably.

[smokedapole]

Pete-o-heat
Putting circuit heros in charge of real operations, scenic/charter or otherwise is asking for trouble. Theory of flight is a wonderfull thing at ISA back in Perth with lovely large bitumen rwy's and overseas students with wallets so large they require their own postcodes, but from what I understand of your operation, things are slightly more complicated than that. Operations are into and out of dirt strips (and bitumen) at ISA+20 and there is a need for comercial hussel to make ON TIME departures and a need to make commercially viable decisions. So maybe it would be a good idea to start our cherokee/grob champions as line monkeys B4 sending them out into the big harsh kimberley as Seniors checks/ATO's etc. Lets face it too. Kununurra is a sweat shop of aviation and anyone that says otherwise is in massive denial. Internal fighting is not worth it fella's, the company has a long proud history and a couple of group hugs around the beer table won't go astray.

[drshmoo]

Things for one of the Kununurra operators have not gone to plan over the last two weeks and I hope for all pilots in YPKU that moral improves asap. The two pilots concerned are both wonderfull people and one thats making his departure will be sorely missed. As for the CLOWNS in management that put up a notice regarding his termination in the pathetic manner that occured, leaves a lot to be desired. Absolutely abhorrant behavior. The person in question said he stuffed up and it seems that he is not the only pilot in history that has made or will make errors. Big error yes and he put up his dirty little claw and said I stuffed up. No rubbish excuses, just admission. Let the person walk away with the dignity that he deserves for he has conducted himself up to this point over his lengthy stay in the kimberley as a professional and a great bloke. Happy Flying to all and better HR managing to those who attempt to manage (directed to both main KU operators).
Love shmoo

[Transition Layer]

Amen DrSchmoo...

Hope things start to turn around up there and finish the season on a good note. :ok:

TL

[OpsNormal]

I'll third that one too, schmooman (how are ya fella? ) :O

It can be such a pity to see a fantastic workplace ruined by some such acts by ego driven individuals.

Some who you'd think would know better, but insist on nothing short of almost completely degrading otherwise normal people in their first job/s, only to satisfy that disgusting self-absorbed ego. It is also such a pity the owner of the company I speak of didn't know what went on because no-one else would say anything about him. :(

Ah well, at least I can hold my head up high during the day and sleep straight in bed at night knowing the problem wasn't actually me.

It'll bite him back one day, I just hope I'm there to see it happen.

Such is Kharma.

[exmexican]

Pete O
Good to hear you've calmed down.
Unless things have changed a great deal for the better in the last 5 years, and I know they haven't, you will need a reality check.
You do not need to suggest that there have been duty time "problems" (read- flagrant disregard for maximums). There was, is, and most likely always will be problems in this area.
The same applies to overweight flights. What do you think will be the "straw that broke the camels back"?
Good work on the wages, the boys and girls will appreciate a few extra beers at the end of the week. Sorry I can't join you for a drink, those pesky Scarenorth flights are so hard to get on.
Good luck for the wet.

[hoofharted?]

This accident is almost word for word the same as recent C310 prang at Mt.Isa. See "310 down at Mt.Isa" by "Nascar2" in this forum.
samazing.

[the wizard of auz]

I hear that the general is moving off to YPDN. I guess there will be a few more CASA investigations going on up there soon.
Goodonya cobba, I needed all the grief you caused by my perceived wrongs like a hole in the head. thats twice now and I still didnt do it. very two faced chappy you are, next time you have a problem......... ask me about it instead of telling every one about what you think is a problem, it didnt exist (again).

[europilot]

.... maybe a fatigue management problem, kununurra operators and their cao 48 issues.... starting at 4.30am and finishing at 6pm... 6 days a week....