Class 1 question

[daffyd]

Hi all

I know how sensitive this subject can be so I understand if I get no response to this question at all.

About 11 years ago I took myself to hospital after having a panic attack brought on by imbibing some amphetamines a "friend" gave to me. I had not taken any illegal substance prior to that and for obvious reasons I haven't done since!!!

I intend to visit Gatwick to try and gain a Class 1 CAA medical and obviously intend to tell them about this incident - I don't lie, especially not to government bodies :)

Has anyone ever been for their medical and admitted this?

Initially, I couldn't see there being a problem but I called the CAA regarding it. Rather worryingly they told me to go to my doctor and have him send a report to them detailing the incident. I've spoken to my doctor previously about this and he has assured me there is no evidence of long-term effects from taking amphetamines.

I will get my doctor to send a report and I will come clean and admit that this happened but I'm beginning to get a little concerned that the CAA will not be quite as realistic as my GP and just not allow to to apply for the medical on these grounds.

Any thoughts anyone? I really would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had to admit something like this so please feel free to PM or email if you'd prefer. I am a regular prooner just using a different username!!

Oh, and please don't turn this thread into a pro/anti drug debate :D

Thx

[Flyin'Dutch']

Now, that was a bit silly!

I think (but am not the CAA) that they will try to establish whether that incident was only a one off or whether that was the only time that you ran into so much trouble that you had to seek medical advice.

They will have to base that on your story and your GP's report.

It is looking at circumstantial evidence and try to extrapolate for the future.

That is very difficult, and if it is too difficult they could conclude; if in doubt do nowt and not give you a medical. At the end of the day they have nothing to gain from taking risks.

However as I have said I am not the CAA.

The FAA states that you have to proof that you have been drug free for 2 years. Haven't got a copy of the JAR rules.

Good luck with the process.

FD

[strafer]

but I'm beginning to get a little concerned that the CAA will not be quite as realistic as my GP and just not allow to to apply for the medical on these grounds.
So why did you tell them???

I wish you luck, because I don't think you should be punished for a single mistake 11 years ago, but I'd be surprised if the CAA/potential employers see it that way.

Let us know how you got on

[MaximumPete]

Come clean with the CAA. If they find out the "hard way" from your GP they may not be quite so amenable.

Remember they are there to get you flying, not prevent you.

Good luck!

MP:D

[daffyd]

Strafer:

When I called the VERY helpful people in FCL at the CAA they didn't even ask my name so in effect I haven't told them yet :)

Maximum Pete:

I wouldn't do anything other than come clean, I agree that it could make things difficult if they ever found out. I don't honestly believe that they will really care but they'd care about incorrect/incomplete medical questionaires as I'm sure you'd agree!

I will make this point however... I will NOT be telling any potential employers about this. As far as I am concerned it's a private matter and none of their business. If the aeromedical department of the CAA considered me fit to hold a class 1 medical then I would consider that to be the end of the matter and I see no reason why I should be expected to divulge this information.

Thx for the vote of confidence MP, of course you are right - they are there to help you fly not to prevent you! I will let you know how I get on chaps :)

thx
dd

[strafer]

Daffyd, it's not necessarily a question of full disclosure. Now I might be wrong on the below (if I am I'm sure I'll be told!), but I'm pretty certain that the CAA have never contacted my GP. If I had a problem with say high blood pressure on my next renewal, then maybe they'd ask him for any history relating to that specific complaint, but the rest of my medical history should still be confidential.

I'm sure that there are a lot of pilots out there who may have been naughty with narcotics when they were younger, but don't do it now that they're responsible grown-ups. Maybe some will even leave posts?

PS there's a very similar thread running here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99671

[Whirlybird]

I think you're making too much of this. The CAA medical form asks some quite specific questions; it does not ask about one panic attack caused by one drug a very long time ago. Lots of people have had occasional panic attacks. Lots of people have taken drugs - whether legally or illegally is hardly relevant here as we're talking about ONE incident.

The people who answer the phone at the CAA are notorious for not being experts on what you want to know. Of course whoever answered would tell you to go to your GP etc if he/she didn't know. From their point of view, that can hardly be wrong, can it?

If you're actually worried about the effects of this incident, talk to your own GP. Otherwise, answer the questions on the CAA medical form honestly and completely, but don't add anything else. Because from what I've seen,although I can't imagine they would stop you flying because of it, such things seem to sometimes delay the issue of a medical...while they think about it! When I went for my first medical, the AME told me to fill in the form, no more and no less. And they've certainly never contacted my GP.

It might be worth remembering that some people have had occasional panic attacks and no-one knows about it, and amphetamines used to be prescribed for various conditions - I got a very low dose at the age of 16 to help me lose weight (please don't start a discussion on the wisdom or otherwise of this; I stopped taking them after a week as I couldn't sleep!). You are making too big a deal about this. Some of us would even have forgotten it occurred...11 years ago....jeez, I can't remember what happened 11 days ago sometimes. :eek:

So go and get your medical and stop worrying.

[daffyd]

Thanks for the further discussion :)

I think I may have come across as a bit paranoid (classic amphetamine abuse behaviour!!!) and in doing so may have given you the wrong impression of myself! I am not that worried about this, I'm just treading very carefully. The ramifications of dealing with this incorrectly COULD be quite large but equally could be insignificant.

Strafer, my understanding after having worked in the NHS for some years is that it is illegal for the CAA to ask for medical details from your GP. Your medical records are totally confidential. My main concern is not one of being caught but of starting a new career and at the first hurdle not being totally honest!! However, I believe the point you make is very valid... don't tell if they don't ask :)

Whirly, I accept your points also, and your post makes me feel a lot happier, as they they often do ;) However, am I not correct in thinking the medical questionaire specifically asks if one has ever taken any illegal substances?

dd

[Rowardennan]

However, am I not correct in thinking the medical questionaire specifically asks if one has ever taken any illegal substances?

If you are going to be so Pedantic about it then why not let that work in your favour?

How do you know what you took was actually illegal?

Did you have a sample analysed?

Could have been anything..You don't know for sure..

So technically you can't answer that question honestly by saying YES

If in doubt I would answer No and that isn't a lie..Because you don't know what is was you took..You might suspect it was illegal..but maybe it wasn't..Who knows for sure?



My advice would be to forget about it..It's a non issue really

[Flyin'Dutch']

Dd

How does:

I think I may have come across as a bit paranoid (classic amphetamine abuse behaviour!!!)

tally with:

I had not taken any illegal substance prior to that and for obvious reasons I haven't done since!!!

Freudian slip?

FD

[Whirlybird]

daffyd,

I don't think it asks about illegal drug use. I think I'd remember, since the question might have involved me thinking back to my misspent youth - and I don't recall having to do that. ;)

But anyway, amphetamines can be prescribed, or could at one point anyway. So, OK, yours weren't. But suppose you'd bought some over-the-counter antibiotics in a country where you could do that, would you call that illegal drug use? You didn't take heroin, or even cannabis. You took a prescription drug, which wasn't prescribed for you. Your choice, but it's debatable whether that constitutes illegal drug taking isn't it?

You seem to know me, and you say you're a regular prooner. Being idly curious, do you fancy sending me a pm saying who you are? No ulterior motive here, but no problem if you want to stay anonymous on anything relating to this subject.

[daffyd]

Freudian slip?

Oh no... they're on to me... :ooh:

Seriously, it's still misuse/abuse even if only done once. Believe me, I was scared enough never to do it again. I probably took too much into the bargain so whilst I cannot claim to have survived an overdose, I was probably suffering a few of the early overdose symptoms :(

dd

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Whirly,

But anyway, amphetamines can be prescribed, or could at one point anyway. So, OK, yours weren't. But suppose you'd bought some over-the-counter antibiotics in a country where you could do that, would you call that illegal drug use?

Uhh, don't you think there is a difference between amphetamine use and buying some antibiotics over the counter?

The legal issues seem to be the least material in the context of this thread in my opinion.

FD