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View Full Version : ** Brazil Shops for arms (and Rooivalke) in SA ! **


Gunship
17th Aug 2003, 07:07
Another major arms deal may be in the wings as the Brazilian Air Force comes window-shopping in South Africa tomorrow to look at attack helicopters and jet fighters.

If the expedition by Brazilian Air Force chief Lieutenant-Brigadier Luiz Bueno pays off, it could see Brazil purchase the troubled Denel Rooivalk attack helicopter that South Africa has battled to sell abroad.


Bueno's visit as Armscor's guest is the latest in a flurry by Brazilian defence brass and contractors over the past few months. Interest has also been expressed in armoured vehicles.


The Rooivalk appeared to have been used by the British merely as a bargaining chip at the 1996 Farnborough defence show to drive down the price of its competitor, the Boeing-made, American-operated Apache attack helicopter, which boasted a superior Hellfire missile system.


Further inquiries by Malaysia, South Korea and a Middle Eastern country, believed to be Saudi Arabia, have come to naught and the Rooivalk gained a reputation as a white elephant. A year ago, Denel wrote off R429-million on the Rooivalk, which cost an estimated R2-billion to develop.


So far, the only Rooivalks flying are the 12 stationed with 16 Squadron at the Bloemspruit Air Force Base near Bloemfontein. Their asking price is believed to be about US25-million (R183-million) apiece.


Also up for view by Bueno are Denel's two-seater Cheetah D fighter and the single-seater Cheetah C, which are due to be replaced by the British Aerospace/Saab-supplied Gripen, starting in 2006. A Cheetah's price tag is about R88-million


Denel Aviation Division group manager Theo Kleynhans said this week that " it's an air force to air force interaction: our air force is inviting theirs to flight-test the Rooivalk."


Kleynhans said the trilateral co-operation agreement in June between SA, Brazil and India - known as the Group of Three, or G3 - provided "a nice framework" for the Brazilians to window-shop SA's military wares.


He said the Rooivalk was attractive to Brazil because it could be adapted for other non-combat roles such as the protection of the endangered Amazon rainforest, search-and-rescue operations in remote areas, and the monitoring of cross-border drug trafficking.


Rooivalk programme manager Rob Jonkers agreed, saying that the Rooivalk's great strengths were its long range - crucial in Brazil, a country the size of the continental US - its night-time surveillance capabilities and its ability to operate in conditions of extreme heat and dust.


Jonkers claimed that despite its problems getting off the ground as a fledgling, the Rooivalk had matured and its upgraded Kentron Mokopa anti-armour missiles were now more accurate than the Americans' Hellfire missiles - with two kilometres extra reach.


He stressed, however, that there was "no Rooivalk deal or anything close; they [the Brazilians] have just seen something that has interested them".


Colonel Ricardo Duarte, the Brazilian Embassy's military attaché for air force and army affairs stationed in Pretoria, confirmed that Bueno was due to visit tomorrow to discuss "some subjects of mutual interest" with the Department of Defence "and one of them is the Rooivalk".


He also said that the Cheetah "is an option" because Brazil's acquisition of new-generation front-line fighters had been delayed for between three and five years following strains on the defence budget, "so the Cheetah could be an intermediate . . . solution".


"Our two ministers of defence signed an agreement a month and a half ago . . . our two air forces are making arrangements to sign a memorandum of understanding to begin co-operation on maintenance and logistical support."


On the offset agreements likely to be worked out if Brazil buys the Rooivalk and Cheetah, Duarte said: "Our idea is not to just buy it, but to share and to draw up an agreement that we could develop together." Some components would be manufactured under licence in Brazil. It was too early to say which Brazilian company could perform this role, but it has been suggested that Helibras, the Brazilian subsidiary of EADS, the European Aeronautic, Defence and Space Company, was a likely bet if Brazil struck a deal.

126,7
17th Aug 2003, 23:13
I heard that the yanks threatened the brits with withholding spares for all their US-produced aircraft if they even thought of buying the Rooivalk instead of the Apache. The Rooivalk never had a chance against such tactics. It would be a pity if the brazilians dont buy any......such a lovely machine.

Gunship
18th Aug 2003, 05:27
126,7 said :

I heard that the yanks threatened the brits with withholding spares for all their US-produced aircraft if they even thought of buying the Rooivalk instead of the Apache. The Rooivalk never had a chance against such tactics. It would be a pity if the brazilians dont buy any......such a lovely machine.

Not a rumour mate - a fact.

Politics are sick mate .. and now a squadron or two Apache's are standing on Muddy Island without drivers ... :yuk:

mass & bagagiste
4th Dec 2003, 22:58
Yes, I agree, such a shame. Especially as the UK MoD requested 4.5 tonnes of proposal documentation that came at a time of ending the boycott of South Africa.

I would like to put forward a point for discussion from a recent article in Aug/Sep 2003 Shepard’s Defence Helicopter.

An eight-ton combat helicopter started from a clean design sheet, unlike the legacy platform Apache.
At 75% the price of Apache. And more capable dollar for dollar with the exception of the Apache millimetre-wave radar which belongs to a different operating philosophy, i.e. that of taking out lots of targets rather than stealthy bush or jungle guerrilla warfare.
Although not exactly a stealthy helicopter (in the sense of a Comanche) radar absorbent paints, low radar/noise signature, angled surfaces, and extensive use of composites it doesn’t have.
Some unique characteristics to Rooivalk are the on-board refuelling pack to operate from FARPS (forward area arming & refuelling points) and air-intake scrubbers to minimise fod in desert/bush conditions.
As well as being adaptable to fire 20mm cannon (1400rounds), 16 Mokopa (now superior range to Hellfire, the USA pulled the plug on supply of these missiles so Denel developed its own), 4 Mistral and 19*4 unguided rockets.

Why is Rooivalk still considered a white elephant by air forces currently in the market for a combat helicopter such as Brazil and Malaysia who have expressed no further interest after their recent test flights?

B Sousa
5th Dec 2003, 07:58
Say what you want about the Apache. Politics and Purchasing are synyomous. It happens in every country. Big Business has their collective hands up the ass of Politicians and wiggle their lips......
BUT be sure if you sell the Rooivalk to Brazil.........get the cash up front.....

Jangys
5th Dec 2003, 15:52
This deal they are looking at, sounds like a pretty good one. It will mean that some poor technical oke will get a job at Denel. Thats good news for all those techies out there previously retrenched from Denel.

My only question will be.......

If this deal goes down, Rooivalk, cheeta's etc.

How many "new vehicles" will be involved?

How much "upfront cash" will some minister or president receive?

There is so much contradiction regarding the Arms deal, that this sounds like another scheme for money laundering.

Please correct me if i am wrong, but this is the way i see it.

:yuk:

B Sousa
5th Dec 2003, 22:50
Jangys.
Payoffs are just another way to insure business.....whether it be a briefcase on the guys desk or a Swiss Bank Account.
My opinion is that if it were in any other Country and not for Government Involvement, the Rooivalk would have been scrapped after a year of no sales. Your taxpayers continue to shell out money in hopes that someone will buy it.
I think the Aircraft had great potential in its infancy. Too many Cooks got into the Kitchen and now the window of opportunity has passed.