Alcoholi and Pilots

[Aerlik]

Just been on the blower to a pilot mate somewhere in northern WA. - never been so don't know where said person is. The topic of alcohol was yet again raised and my mate told me that it was common for pilots to be on the nectar up there the night before a flight. I thought there were strict rules regarding alcohol and next day flying. If this is so then why aren't pilots being checked?

Also what's this about some pilots in that area being taken on with "230" hours (sic)? Are they friends of the boss or what? How come such a low hours/inexperienced pilot can make it into the scene in that region? Are the conditions easy or what? Are the pilots really good or do they possess some special handshake or magical formula for getting a start while the rest make do with their 5 hours per month at the local parachuting club. Don't meant to rock the boat but would love to know.

[NoseGear]

Mate, the rules relating to alcohol and flying are this: Don't. Legally it is 8 hours bottle to throttle, and that is from the last drink, not the first! It is up to the individual to excercise common sense. If you want a big night, great, just don't go flying the next day or if you are working, try and limit yourself.

As for the "special handshake", yeah, there is one, its called the "doing it in person handshake":ok: No magical formula, and if you do a search, you will find a wealth of information on going north. Seems to be the way to go in Aussie, however some of the local pilots will no doubt be able to give you some more specific advise on who, what, when and where.

Good luck on your endeavours

Nosey

[Tinstaafl]

The rules are quite specific: The pilot shall not fly if s/he suffers any deleterious effect as the result of consuming any pharmaceutical. They go on to add that in the case of alcohol there must also be a minimum of 8 hours from the last consumption to flight.

The upshot is that a couple of drinks the night before is OK as long as you stop drinking at least 8 hours before flying, getting completely plastered and flying while hungover or still under the influence is not.

Some companies specify more restrictive limits in their operations manual eg maximum of two drinks in the 24hrs preceding duty etc etc. This only applies to those working for that company.

As for 230 hr pilots getting employed: What's wrong with that? They hold commercial pilot licences that qualify them for the job. If the employer feels they're suitable then good for them.

[Winstun]

It is up to the individual to excercise common sense......try and limit yourself.....The upshot is that a couple of drinks the night before is OK..... :rolleyes:...well, we all know how this works...
The rules are quite specific Specifically broad in allowing the common practise of alcohol affected pilots to fly around at less than peak mental alertness. If you consider your purpose as a true professional and consider the life of your trusted passengers, my advice is to not intake any alcohol within 48 hours of flying operations. Which in the case of many GA pilots, means total abstinence. Not popular, and not the herd view, but nevertheless correct. :ok:

[splatgothebugs]

I think all that fly know the rules so there is no point stating them.

As far as pilots with 250+/- hours getting jobs, GOOD ON THEM, they have got off there back sides and got a job. Given some do have conections and have used them, but really who cares they have got jobs and they are living their dream.

Instead of people getting uptight about these people getting work, maybe they should go talk to them and ask how they did it

:O :ok:

[Captain Sand Dune]

RAAF used to have the "8 hours bottle to throttle" rule, now it's "no alcohol in the blood". They (RAAF medical) can also pull blood after any accident/incident.:eek:
Is "alcoholi" the Latin plural for "alcohol"?

[Transition Layer]

For me it's one of the most enjoyable parts of the flying culture and will hopefully always remain part of it.

Nothing better than ending a hot, stinky, humid days flying with a few (depending on how many others were there to share the 6 pack!) cold beers outside the hangar watching the bangers roll in for the night.

Go home, cook some dinner, watch the news to see what the rest of the world has been up to, go to bed and get up and do it all again!!!

:ok:

TL

[Continental-520]

Hmmm... in quite an outspoken mindset this evening, for some reason.


I think all that fly know the rules so there is no point stating them.


Could've fooled me... Unless of course they knowingly break them.


Aerlik,

Yes, go north, but don't expect the job to fall in your lap once you get there. Might take a few weeks, or, depending on the location and situation there at the time, you might have to hang around for a couple of seasons. Gives you plenty of time to learn about the area and the people, history, locals, activities to do, etc. This will also be extremely handy knowledge WHEN (not if) you get hired, too. Make sure you target a few operators, though.

I went to Broome last year in search of the elusive first job, hung there for a few months without any results, and pretty much got a job over the phone with an operator half way down the coast just cause I'd sent them letters and phoned every now and again whilst sitting in Broome washing dishes.

All the very best of luck! It'll go your way.


520.

[compressor stall]

(2) A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft for the purpose of so acting, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions
preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.

Note - it's 8 hours prior to Departure...for those out bush timing it to the minute. :hmm:

I would like to see the medical evidence of the 48 hours Winstun. I have seen studies suggesting 24, but 48? :bored:

And what's wrong with 250 hour pilots? They have a CPL, they have demonstrated to a CP that they can perform an operation (usually scenic/charter flying in VMC) Good luck to 'em! It'll be some of the roughest and most memorable flying of their career and will be the talking point over many a beer on a night stopin LHR or wherever. (sorry 3 day stopover, to abide by the rules according to god. :rolleyes: )

[High Altitude]

In a world where one needs to be more responsible for ones actions I feel that CAR 256 (2) really needs to be read and understood.

Lets face it who has had a big night and flown 8 hours later? How did you feel?

As I mentioned it boils down to responsibility.

Here is a scenario... Big night but stopped drinking at 0100 driving to work the next day you get breathalised (@0900). You blow .04 how do you then respond to CAR256? .04 doesn't put you in a state where you are not impaired? Well thats what the road rules say?

I reckon its one of Australias most ambiguous laws when it comes to aviation!

Aviation however is an industry that breeds drinkers (as are most industries).

p.s. Yes I have been on both sides of the fence - i.e. remote area pilot & operator.

My question is without doing a search - have there been many prosecutions under the CAR? Is there a legal prescedent? In Oz not the States?

Does it state .00 anywhere in the regs?

I know this post is all over the place - just curious to know your real thoughts on the matter. Not the yeah i'm a pilot I drink.

How do you think the rule should read?

Total abstinance is not even worth thinking about (unless of course you are on call).

On the 250 hour pilot? Whats wrong with that? I got my start at 230 hours! The only problem with 250 hours is that thanks to Mr Insurance it is getting harder to hire these hours.

[VH-ABC]

G'day all,

Remember hearing or reading (a long time ago) a point on this whole thing about flying after having a big night on the turps. Because Aviation is Regulated by the Department of Transport, just like, say, a busdriver, pilots have to have a blood/alcohol level of 0.0%... I think from memory this equates to around 48 hours bottle to throttle, depending on the individuals ability to convert alcohol to sweat. Loading a twin otter in Darwin wet season is magic for this. So HA, I don't think its anywhere in the Act or Regs, but is covered in the Dept of Transport Bible... wherever that is!

[404 Titan]

VH-ABC

No that isn’t correct. Aviation in Australia is governed by what is in the CAR’s. In the context of this debate CAR 256 in particular.
(2) A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or carried in the aircraft for the purpose of so acting, shall not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug, pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her capacity so to act is impaired. Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(3) A person shall not act as, or perform any duties or functions
preparatory to acting as, a member of the operating crew of an aircraft if the person has, during the period of 8 hours immediately preceding the departure of the aircraft consumed any alcoholic liquor.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
:)