BA cancels Saudi Flights

[rumflier]

Sky Newsflash:
BA has cancelled all flights to Saudi until further notice and with immediate effect because of "heightened threat" to security

[noisy]

CNN are also corroborating this story. BA have posted the information on their website, although it's not clear what the nature of the threat is.

From BA.com:

British Airways has suspended until further notice its flights to Saudi Arabia due to heightened security concerns in the region.

This decision follows discussions earlier today between the airline and the British government's Department for Transport.

Geoff Want, the airline’s director of safety and security, said, “As a matter of precaution we have decided to suspend all flights to Saudi Arabia for the time being and we will continue to liaise closely with the British government.”

Today, British Airways cancelled its flights from London Heathrow to both Riyadh and Jeddah.

[BRISTOLRE]

Its on the BBC as breaking news as well.
Again, no specific threat or incident mentioned.
Armed fighting is suggested to have broken out on the streets of Riyadh with Islamic militants.

[Rollingthunder]

Sounds pretty serious if flights have been totally suspended to two destinations in Saudia. Speculating that threats of SAMs are ongoing.

[ghost-rider]

BBC News 24 reporting suspension is due to a 'specific terrorist threat'.

[interestedparty]

Another 45 minute warning maybe? The trouble with spin is it takes a long time to slow down - the gyroscope principle.
Ramp up the alarm level and keep the threat before the public's mind, and appear to be competent.
Our Tony is doing everything for your safety........... Vote Tony.

[PlaneTruth]

interestedparty,

As opposed to say, doing nothing?

PT

[interestedparty]

Plane Truth

By no means, but terroists thrive on the sort of disinformation that our (UK) government has become so adept at spreading. I now distrust our government completely........
Given that there is a small but finite risk it may be a prudent step not to travel on target carriers, or at all; but the problem seems to be that nobody asks that crucial question, "Why are we so hated?", and what are we going to do about it?
To quote Bill Bryson (an American), "Britain fought and won WWII, dismantled a mighty empire in a benign and enlightened way, created the welfare state -- in short, did nearly everything right -- then spent the rest of the century regarding itself as a chronic failure."
Having been a colonial power it is now a capital error to associate ourselves with the neo-colonialists.
Given that the world has become, or is perceived to have become, a much more dangerous place post 9/11; it is probably safer to stay at home - which of course rather puts the mockers on the aviation industry, but does reduce the need for oil!

[Earl]

The Religious Idiots have struck again, both Government and Islamic fanatics.
Will Saudia pick up the slack?
Would rather fly BA any day compared to them.

[chuks]

Stay at home if you like. I'm paid to go flying!

If you really want to frighten yourself, just think that perhaps these terrorists don't necessarily hate you, they just want to blow you up. Why? Umm, dunno exactly, but I think they like getting attention for their agendas, half-thought out though they may be.

`Neo-colonialist´? Puh-leeze! Are you seriously suggesting that some vague threat against civil aviation can somehow be tied to an even more vague alleged agenda being pursued by George W. Bush and his best friend Tony Blair? You see the mess we are in now in Iraq. You think those two are looking at this as a vote-winner, when winning votes is top of the agenda?

Just how would you expect Great Britain to sort this one out? Expel our Envoy to the Court of Saint James and have the Queen go veiled? Even if you ended up with the People's Islamic Republic of Formerly Great Britain then you would just see terrorism in the name of various feuding sects.

You might be better off trying to come up with some degree of trust in your democratically elected government and the courage to get out and about in the face of this degree of risk.

[Tom the Tenor]

I wonder if management at British Airways will be looking for compensation from the UK government for any cancelled flights to Riyadh and Jedda? :bored:

[maxy101]

Tom BA management aren´t that bright, they´ll be coming to the staff demanding more cuts in salary....

[interestedparty]

Chuks urges me to put "trust in your democratically elected government"; as many have found to their cost democratic elections don't ensure trustworthyness.
As to having "the courage to get out & about" I was in the desert during the first Iraq war and didn't notice too much civil aviation in the vicinity!

[mutt]

NEWSLETTER 19-03 06Aug2003

The Foreign & Commonwealth Office Travel Advice for Saudi Arabia has been amended. The Foreign Office has discontinued automatic authorised voluntary departure of staff and of dependants of our diplomatic missions in Saudi Arabia. Nevertheless, the Travel Advice for Saudi Arabia continues to advise against all but essential travel to the Kingdom.

NEWSLETTER 20-03 14 Aug2003

The Foreign & Commonwealth Office Travel Advice for Saudi Arabia has been amended to warn of information about a threat to British aviation interests in the Kingdom. As a precautionary measure British Airways is currently suspending all flights to Riyadh and Jeddah and will be continually reviewing the situation. The Travel Advice for Saudi Arabia continues to advise against all but essential travel to the Kingdom and to warn of the likelihood of further attacks against Western interests.

The reason for that change in policy is this......

RIYADH, 13 August 2003 — Three Saudi policemen were killed in a major shootout between security forces and suspected terrorists here yesterday, an Interior Ministry official said. The official said a suspected militant and two policemen were injured in the incident.

An unspecified number of militants were arrested, a source told Arab News.

Armed police laid siege to the Al-Suwaidi district in the south of the capital on Monday evening, hours after 10 suspected militants escaped a gunbattle in north Riyadh.

The Interior Ministry immediately announced that all members of the gang escaped, contradicting media reports that they were arrested.

It was unclear last night, however, whether the latest shootout involved the same gang which escaped earlier.

Armed police, the source added, stormed several villas in the Al-Suwaidi district, including a building under construction, in the late afternoon while helicopter gunships hovered overhead.

Eyewitnesses reported that armed men in the buildings hurled hand grenades and fired automatic rifles.

They appeared determined to fight to the death rather than surrender, as have all other militants in a string of similar violent confrontations following the May 12 suicide bombings in Riyadh.

Twenty-six bystanders including seven Saudis and nine Americans as well as nine attackers died in the bombing.

At least 200 suspects have been arrested, more than a dozen killed and thousands interrogated following the blasts.

Al-Suwaidi district, the scene of yesterday’s gunbattle, is one of Riyadh’s less affluent.

Newswires reported that the suspected militants opened fire on members of the special security forces who besieged the villas in the district.

Exchanges of fire resumed at around 7:30 p.m. after a brief lull in the shootout. Power was cut and security forces used searchlights.

Residents said the hunt for the militants started on Monday night. Villas in the area of the shootout were evacuated yesterday evening as security forces took up positions on rooftops.

According to one report, more than 15 were wounded in the shootout.

A resident told Reuters at least five houses were targeted in the raid. “The operation is very big. The whole area is surrounded by security police. It is a big area,” he added.

Police cordoned off the area, preventing passers-by and reporters from approaching.

Saudi Arabia has cracked down hard on militants after the May bombings, which targeted compounds housing foreigners.

Washington and Riyadh blame the bombings on Al-Qaeda.

The latest shootout came after 10 suspected terrorists on Sunday fired on police before fleeing from a rest house used to store weapons and explosives.

A source told Arab News that the suspects were all armed with machine guns. No security officers were injured.

A search of the rest house revealed a large cache of weapons and explosives and several ID cards.

Last month, security forces exchanged fire with suspected militants at a farm in Al-Qasim after learning from intelligence sources that some of the 19 Al-Qaeda members wanted in connection with the May 12 bombings were hiding there.

Six terror suspects and two police officers were killed in the shootout. The Interior Ministry said one of the Saudis — Ahmed ibn Nasser Al-Dakheel — killed in that battle was on the wanted list.

The ministry has urged the other wanted militants to surrender and warned the public against sheltering or sympathizing with wanted terror suspects.

The 19 individuals on the wanted list are considered by the authorities to be part of a group that had direct connections with the Al-Qaeda terrorist network.



Mutt.

[Unwell_Raptor]

interestedparty:

Just how ****ty can you get?

The British (i.e.my) Government has tipped off the British flag carrier about a possible terrorist attack. BA has taken it sufficiently seriously to call off flights at great commercial cost.

And the best that you can do is a snide gibe at Tony Blair.

For God's sake grow up.

[Mode7]

Maxy101 - get a life.............:rolleyes:

[maxy101]

Mode 7 - Wait and see....

[chuks]

Dare I ask `Interestedparty´ which side he was on when he was out in the desert during Gulf War I? Hahahahaha... Ooops! Here comes Matron with my medication. Must remember to keep taking the lithium...

I was interested to see the extensive debrief after the failed shootdown attempt on the Arkia 757, when the press told we the reading public, including the perpetrators, just where they went wrong: too close, wrong angle, must do better next time. Or do we assume these guys cannot read?

There are a lot of interesting aspects to this whole question of what to do in response to a terrorist threat against civil aviation but this forum sure isn't the place for more than a very general discussion. I find some of the registered participants half a ball out of trim (as some of them do me, perhaps) and God only knows who else is silently looking in on this.

All I can say is that I plan to carry on with business as usual insofar as I can do that. To get in a tizz over some spoilt rich Arab boy's sudden quest for social justice and Islamic purity (or just a payback for some blonde girl laughing at his tiny willy): isn't that just what he would want me to do?

[PUKKA GEN]

I think there is far more going on in Saudi, vis a vis terrorism, than meets the eye.
It struck me as very strange that prior to the Iraqi invasion the U.S. Central Command moved its H.Q. to Qatar, with little or no explanation. Even CNN which reports incessantly on missing cats barely mentioned the CentCom move,let alone the reason for it.

[Bubbette]

I think this was explained several times--google it--that the US just wanted out of Saudi for many reasons.

[mutt]

JEDDAH, 24 August 2003 — The suspension of British Airways (BA) flights to Saudi Arabia and the UK is to continue “for some time,” a BA official told Arab News yesterday.
“The situation is under continuous review at the ministerial level,” said Chris Phipps, country commercial manager for BA.
“By the end of the month, we will be in a position to make decisions based on updated information. The current status is that flights are canceled up to and including Aug. 28.”
BA decided to cancel flights in line with strict company guidelines on safety, unlike the earlier cancellation of flights into Nairobi which were suspended by the British government.
The decision to cancel the heavily-booked flights into Saudi Arabia was based on information received from Saudi intelligence sources. The decision to continue the ban comes on the heels of heightened tension in the Kingdom following the Riyadh suicide bombings on May 12, which killed 26 bystanders and nine of the attackers, and subsequent shootouts between suspected militants and police.
It was in the aftermath of these incidents that evidence of terrorist intent to focus action on “British interests” was discovered and linked to King Khalid International Airport in Riyadh.
“We have had outstanding cooperation from the Saudi authorities and we took the decision based on what we perceived as a credible threat,” Phipps said.
BA staff in Jeddah worked nine days without a break, he said, to try and accommodate the hundreds of passengers inconvenienced and tons of air freight stranded as a result of the cancellation.
“We have contingency plans for this kind of situation,” said Phipps, “but the staff really put their backs into it and everything that could be done was done.”
The Presidency for Civil Aviation and the UK government are working closely together as the peak season for travel to the Kingdom approaches, and there is agreement that the security and safety of the traveling public is the top priority, Phipps said.
“Expats returning after the summer break and the build-up of Haj passengers are putting extra pressure on routes to the Kingdom,” Phipps explained.
BA is directing passengers to alternate routes and airlines and refunding fares when this is requested.
Saudi Arabian Airlines has taken a substantial number of bookings and scheduled extra flights out of Riyadh to cope with the demand.

[ELT4UTC]

Why would BA cancel flights into JED an still push for flights into Iraq.
Something does not make sense here.
My ex pat friends tell me that the Saudi national gaurd has been placed at the entry gates of Saudi City to protect the ex pat compound for Saudia employees in JED.
Something must be up.

[Paterbrat]

Been there for some time as well as round most expat compounds. Were posted after the bombing in Riyadh.

[Oceanic]

BA web site - reservations- showing flights available 3/4 Sept onwards (although I haven't tried to purchase). Are flights on again?

[FFFlyer]

As the terrorists who attacked the compounds in Riyad were in SNG uniforms, were in SNG cars and had SNG arms I'm not sure I would be too reasured by their prescence. All levels of government are completly penetrated by extremists.

Many Arabs I have spoken to believe that the present regime is living on borrowed time and that there will be a revolution of sorts. This may explain why the US was so determined to go into Iraq. KSA does provide about 30% of the West's oil.

Its not the rich boys, its the increasing number of Saudis who live in poverty and who are unemployed. Estimates are that this is over 30%. Light the blue touch paper and stand back...

[noisy]

An update:

Saudis seize 'terror' missiles

Saudi authorities say they have seized a lorry-load of surface-to-air missiles destined for an unnamed terrorist group.
The consignment was intercepted last month on a desert road near the port city of Jeddah.
Police say the weapons - capable of being used to bring down aircraft - had been smuggled from Yemen.
Last month, air travellers from the United States and Britain were alerted to the possibility of attack if they went to Saudi Arabia.
The alerts came after intelligence reports were relayed to Washington and London by the Saudis of a specific threat to British airlines flying in or out of Riyadh international airport.
And British Airways, one of the world's biggest airlines, suspended all flights to Saudi Arabia until further notice.
The airline says it has had good co-operation from the Saudi authorities and hopes to resume flights soon.
The Americans are particularly sensitive to threats in Saudi Arabia following the suicide car bombings on 12 May on residential blocks housing Americans and other foreigners.
More than 30 people were killed and nearly 100 injured in the blasts.
Since then, Saudi authorities have cracked down on Islamist groups with suspected links to Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, arresting scores of suspects.
The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says the Saudis have been proactive in their efforts, sometimes overreacting.
They find themselves dealing with a lethal cocktail - the country is near Yemen where weapons are easily available and the presence in Saudi Arabia of extremists who are ready to use them against Western targets, our correspondent says.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3079654.stm

[akerosid]

It just gets worse and worse. They found this "truckload" of missiles (how many exactly, I wonder), but how many actually got/get through.

The political situation in Saudi seems worse by the day; unemployment is high, poverty (as was mentioned already) is increasing and there also appears to be a power struggle at the very top, with King Fahed apparently ill.

I can't see BA returning to Saudi anytime soon. Indeed, I can see the whole Saudi situation blowing up in a way which may make the Iranian revolution of '78/79 seem minor . . .

[mutt]

Sorry Akerosid, but BA didnt listen to you.......

JEDDAH, 5 September 2003 — British Airways intends to resume flights to Saudi Arabia, suspended on Aug. 13 over security concerns, the Saudi Press Agency said yesterday.

Citing a joint statement by the British airliner and the Kingdom’s Civil Aviation Authority, the report said BA had ascertained that security measures at Saudi airports surpassed even international standards.

“British Airways asked the head of civil aviation (for clearance) to resume flights, and he secured the approval of higher authorities,” it added.

The statement did not say when British Airways would resume flights, suspended after the discovery of what US officials described as a plot by terrorists to attack planes at Riyadh’s main airport.

But sources at BA’s offices in Jeddah said normal service would resume early next week. Interior Minister Prince Naif said at the time of the suspension that the Kingdom had no “specific information” on a plot to attack commercial aircraft at King Khaled International Airport.

As for King Fahds illness, in reality he stopped running the country about 4-5 years ago, his brother Crown Prince Abdullah has the reins of power. The real power struggle will begin after the death of King Fahd.


noisy That BBC report is inaccurate and out of date.

JEDDAH, 5 September 2003 — A high-ranking official at the Ministry of the Interior yesterday denied a report on the BBC English language news website claiming that a consignment of surface-to-air missiles was intercepted last month on a desert road near Jeddah.

Remarkably, the denial was reported by BBC Arabic, the BBC’s Arabic language news site.

The official said the Interior Ministry had announced the seizure of a repair truck containing weapons including rocket-propelled grenades two weeks ago but that it had originated from Qunfudha in Jizan, near the Saudi-Yemeni border, and was intercepted outside Makkah, not on a desert road near Jeddah.

BBC security analyst Frank Garner, when asked whether he was aware that the story had been reported two weeks ago, told Arab News: “I was not aware that the statement was previously reported outside of Saudi Arabia.”

But a spokesman for the British Embassy concurred that the story had previously been reported.

“This is nothing new. We think that the article is based on a report in the Saudi press on Aug. 26, which dealt with an arms cache that had been recently discovered,”


Mutt.

[noisy]

Sky News are currently reporting that BA flights to Saudi are back on. No details on their website yet tho'

[6000PIC]

Saudi Arabia , land of hookas , hookers , faith and hypocracy is on a slippery slope to revolution in due course , therefore I think BA made a good decision here. To deny good intelligence and ignore an impending possibility of a terror strike is something akin of negligence in today`s " post 9/11 " security culture.
When King Fahad dies , count on a power struggle of such immensity that 25,000 plus princes and princesses could only create , as they ally themselves with whoever looks likely to assume the Kingship. Amid all this lies no doubt corruption, influence, abuse, rape, theft of the country`s wealth, and an environment where operating a 777 or 747 isn`t worth the bother, risk, or effort.
This will be a major world event as it unfolds, just be aware that a ( veiled ) lens can be made to show you only what you expect to see.....

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

While clearly things are drifting badly in Saudi Arabia, I think the real crunch may come, not when King Fahd dies, but when Abdullah dies. Crown Prince Abdullah has been pretty much running the show for a few years already, and I think he is a tough cookie in the sense that he has already admitted that the Saudi economy is facing problems and that he is realistic enough to know that some limited reforms have to happen. However, when he goes (he's healthy enough now for a 78-year old), then I think you may see the political fragmentation many have forecast. At least, I will give some credit to the Americans for finally seeing some sense in their Saudi policy and disengaging from the country, ie. removal of military forces and gradually lessening their oil dependence on that country and the Gulf in general.

On another front, how can British Airways announce they are flying back into Saudi Arabia the day after they discover a truckload of missiles there ? Or has the missiles story been exaggerated ?

[mutt]

Or has the missiles story been exaggerated ?

Read my last message and you will see that the story wasnt just exxagerated, but totally wrong and about two weeks late.....



Mutt.