General Aviation only a stepping stone

[thinking pilot]

When do GA pilots become appreciated as legitimate workers in the aviation community.

As High Altitude has stated in another post, "GA has always been a stepping stone", hey Stef what does that mean exactly.

How about someone who enters aviation as a second or third career, should they expect to be treated as **** for there duration in GA.

Is Pearl a GA company, what about Air North, when exactly do we depart GA.

Please explain

[High Altitude]

Great question!

My personal theory has always been "Bigger better higher faster" which I reckon would sum up what most pilots want to do.

I mean lets face it when a pax calls your plane small its like a chick calling your Willie small (not that that has ever happened to me:O ).

I call Air North a regional airline - why? Because they are. Apart from Q & NJ they are the only airline in Darwin. Now again ask a Bras Capt would he knock back Q or VB if they called? Doubt it.

Pearl you ask :- The upper echelon of turbine charter in Darwin very large company. Don't know many Pearl pilots but I reckon they would all be happy, but would they knock back a call from Q or VB? Doubt it.

Career GA :- Obviously the likes of RFDS, Corporate Jet, etc, one of the best GA jobs in OZ would be flying NP's 500. More than likely pilots happy in this area want to stay there.

Many people have told me that airline flying is not the be all and end all of aviation, however what other job provides such great security (even then its not 100%)? People tell me I would be bored flying 73's up and down the East Coast (mmm doubt it!). As someone very early in my career told me (which relates back to my first comment) is that as a pilot you are lying if you don't want to fly the latest and greatest.

I geuss I've rambled enough but my point is how many pilots out there that are not in a mainstream airline would knock back a phone call offering a job? I don't think there would be many therefore isn't everything a stepping stone to that big piece of metal in the sky?

[Ang737]

He is one I heard a few months ago from an uneducated fool (aka Grade 3 instructor)... "I don't want to fly airlines, its just button pushing". Ok mate what it you get this "Cancel STAR turn left heading 260 for track shortening" let me see you do that by pushing buttons....

Go higher go faster... Wide bodies are my choose...

[D Rate]

Flying full stop still brings a buzz.
GA is great fun, airline flying pretty kewl too. Each have their own shortcomings.
But slipping the surly bonds whether in a Cessna 152 or a 744 still is mind blowing stuff.

If its just work then one will never enjoy it. You are as you think. All I used to say to new pilots coming through was, "When it starts to get a bit stale, and you are looking for the next step, think what this aircraft would cost to hire and fly" Sometimes the fellas/ettes saw the point sometimes not.
As NG said elsewhere, do something you love and you never work a day in your life...

HA has the idea. :ok:

[removalist]

If its just work then one will never enjoy it. You are as you think.

Well said d rate and sadly enough most people think extremely negative about everything. A couple of my mates are flying higher than all of us, that thought alone is enough to be thankful for everything i do everyday.

regards

removalist :D

[D Rate]

Removalist

I too have felt loss quite close to home.
I share that sentiment, life is a gift.
It just shows us how good we actually have things when people worry about such peripheral issues!

We don't generally fear our own mortality until it is threatened or someone we love faced thiers.

Life is a great ride, we must try to savour it whilst we can!
Even in GA!

Regards,

D rate
:D

[Mr. Hat]

Thinking pilot - in GA you will nearly always be treated like sh!t. The exception are those employers that make a point of not doing it. They are few and far between and they take some finding.

You are pretty much not regarded as a real pilot by the community/general public unless you are working for QF or VB.

Air North? Regional airline.

Pearl? Top end of turbine GA.


:rolleyes:

[kiki]

out of interest

Regarding salary what does a,
Airnorth Metro Capt / FO - Braz Capt / FO
Pearl Kingair Capt / FO - Metro Capt / FO

get paid, i have a rough idea.

[compressor stall]

Got sent this recently (as did a number of other oz pilots judging by the length of the CC and BCC list!

Pretty much sums up the arguments and sentiments above. :p

> > Subject: A Pilot's Lot
> >
> > One fine hot Summer's afternoon a Cessna 150 was flying in the pattern at
> > a quiet country airfield. The Instructor was getting quite bothered with
> > the student's inability to maintain altitude in the thermals and was
> > getting impatient at sometimes having to take over the controls. Just then
> > he saw a twin engine Cessna 5,000ft above him and thought "Another 1,000
> > hrs of this and I qualify for that twin charter job! Aaahh.. to be a real
> > pilot.. going somewhere!"
> >
> > The Cessna 402 was already late and the boss told him this charter was for
> > one of the Company's premier clients. He'd already set MCT and the
> > cylinders didn't like it in the heat of this Summer's day. He was at
> > 6,000ft and the winds were now a 20kt headwind. Today was the 6th day
> > straight and he was pretty damn tired of fighting these engines. Maybe if
> > he got 10,000ft out of them the wind might die off... geez those cylinder
> > temps! He looked out momentarily and saw a B737 leaving a contrail at
> > 33,000ft in the serene blue sky. "Oh man" he thought, "My interview is
> > next month. I hope I just don't blow it! Outa G/A, nice jet job, above the
> > weather... no snotty passengers to wait for.. aahhh."
> >
> > The Boeing 737 bucked and weaved in the heavy CAT at FL330 and ATC advised
> > that lower levels were not available due traffic. The Captain, who was
> > only recently advised that his destination was below RVR minimums had
> > slowed to LRC to try and hold off a possible inflight diversion, and
> > arrange an ETA that would helpfully ensure the fog had lifted to CATII
> > minima. The Company negotiations broke down yesterday and looked as if
> > everyone was going to take a damn pay cut. The F/O's will be particularly
> > hard hit as their pay wasn't anything to speak of anyway. Finally deciding
> > on a speed compromise between LRC and turbulence penetration, the Captain
> > looked up and saw Concorde at Mach 2+. Tapping his F/O's shoulder as the
> > 737 took another bashing, he said "Now THAT'S what we should be on... huge
> > pay ... super fast... not too many routes... not too many legs... above
> > the CAT.. yep! What a life...!
> >
> > FL590 was not what he wanted anyway and considered FL570. Already the TAT
> > was creeping up again and either they would have to descend or slow down.
> > That damn rear fuel transfer pump was becoming unreliable and the F/E had
> > said moments ago that the radiation meter was not reading numbers that
> > he'd like to see. Concorde descended to FL570 but the radiation was still
> > quite high even though the Notam indicated hunky dory below FL610. Fuel
> > flow was up and the transfer pump was intermittent. Evening turned into
> > night as they passed over the Atlantic. Looking up, the F/O could see a
> > tiny white dot moving against the backdrop of a myriad of stars. "Hey
> > Captain" he called as he pointed. "Must be the Shuttle. "The Captain
> > looked for a moment and agreed. Quietly he thought how a Shuttle mission,
> > while complicated, must be the be all and end all in aviation. Above the
> > crap, no radiation problems, no damn fuel transfer problems... aaah. Must
> > be a great way to earn a buck."
> >
> > Discovery was into its 27th orbit and perigee was 200ft out from nominated
> > rendezvous altitude with the commsat. The robot arm was virtually U/S and
> > a walk may become necessary. The 200ft predicted error would necessitate a
> > corrective burn and Discovery needed that fuel if a walk was to be
> > required. Houston continually asked what the Commander wanted to do but
> > the advice they proffered wasn't much help. The Commander had already been
> > 12 hours on station sorting out the problem and just wanted 10 minutes to
> > himself to take a leak. Just then a mission specialist, who had tilted the
> > telescope down to the surface for a minute or two, called the Commander to
> > the scope. "Have a look at this Skipper, isn't this the kinda flying you
> > said you wanted to do after you finish up with NASA?" The Commander peered
> > through the telescope and cried "Ooooohhhhh yeah! Now THAT'S flying! Man,
> > that's what its all about! Geez I'd give my left nut just to be doing THAT
> > down there!" What the Discovery Commander was looking at was a Cessna 150
> > in the pattern at a quiet country airfield on a nice bright sunny
> > afternoon.

[Fission]

How true - just trying to find a glider pilot willing to swap for a few days - any takers ??? :)

Fizzy

[Bandalero]

Mr. Hat - You have a bad attitude mate.

"Your not a real pilot until you fly for Q or VB"

What a load of absolute crap:mad:

Why is it operators treat their pilots like sh!t???

Because their tired of being sh@t on by soft c@ck, back stabbing mummy's boys that show no loyalty to them.:suspect:

[the maori mobster]

Now CS that is a good lesson. Bloody good story.

Cheers Bro:ok:

[Thump & Go]

Easy Bandanaero boyo,I think if you read carefully Mr Hat claimedyou are pretty much not regarded as a real pilot by the community/general public unless you're working for QF or VB
As for your other comment,it's a bit of a "which came first" situation isn't it? Maybe softc@ck mummies boys wouldn't sh!t on operators if they weren't treated like faecal matter & earned some loyalty.Just a thought.;)

[prospector]

And after all that accumulated wisdom being dispensed so freely, there will still be people parting with their hard earned cash to get a chance to fulfil a dream. Or it used to be a dream, and hard earned cash, until the student loan scheme started in NZ, for a lot now its just an easy way to fill in time, and completely distorting the market, especially at the lower end.

BIK Perhaps Mon Capitaine would fit????

Prospector

[the wizard of auz]

You wouldnt believe how often one hears "You must make a fortune" when they find out your a pilot. And even when your talking to other pilots, and they find out I'm a mustering pilot, I quite often get the Oh, that must be great fun. Its as boring as bat sh!t actually, and I beleive thats true for most parts of the industry.... when you get used to doing what your doing, it gets boring and we all want to move up a notch.
even myself.... I was recently fortunate enough to fly the PC12, and after bashing around at 50ft in the C172 and around the traps in a C310 for a few hours,I was excited. but after landing it without bending it after an hour of slipping around at heights I normally cant reach, the most exciting part was the ciruit and landing (I did enjoy all the tele screens with pretty lights........just gotta get the playstation and DVD to link to them) I pretty sure that after a week in this buggy one would be bored mindless.
So just like`stallies story, it goes on. I reckon if there was better money in GA, there would be far more people that would stay there (I would) Its not a bad job, just the money sux. assholes for bosses are the norm in most industries, and you get used to telling em to pissoff, and they get used to hearing it.......... just gotta work on the honesty aspect of the industry ........ its certainly lacking.

[Sheep Guts]

Ah yes and the most interesting takes I get from Passengers are:

Would you like to fly the big ones?

Are you going to fly the Big Boys when you get enough hours?

Keep up the good work, you get that jet job soon just keep building hours.

Do you think youll fly with the Big Airlines one day?


And the list goes on. Gets tiring after awhile.

If they only new I had enough log book time..........

I even flew for an International Airline all be it as a Twotter Captain. And the Pax still treat you like a GA Pilot.


It Never ends


Sheep

[Mr. Hat]

BIK - too true mate. I've been in that situation before with the opposite sex. I once had a chap that was trying to cut my grass whilst I was chatting to one of these ladies and when the topic of flying came up he promptly said with a grin "oh you fly those little ones that crash all the time". Had to laugh won't be long till I'm out of the little ones and he's still be hating every minute of his job.

Banderwhateveryournameis - I read with interest your post. Not quite as captivating as your Kaptin M's, BIK's, compressor stalls or ITCZ's but near enough. What I was actually trying to get across with my "mummys boy" english was that the public don't regard you as a "pilot" until you are on the big stuff. Sad but true, a part of life - doesn't really bother me as much as SOME. I'm comfortable with what I do for a crust.

As for employers treating pilots like sh!t that is also part of life. If you care to do a bit of research you'll find I've been the first to point out to newbies that there are good operators out there. In fact it has been my experience that most operators at the end of the day are quite good. I've been lucky.

Loyalty can be shown in many ways, but at the end of the day when it is time to move on as long as you give adequate notice and complete your employment tasks then I see no problem with that. Afterall employers don't really want guys to stick around for 10 years. They actually get satisfaction out seeing a pilot move on to bigger and better equipment. Just ask High Altitude.

I hope you are an employer because if you are a pilot your post reveals your true experience in the industry.

You have a good day now.

[squire]

Dear Hat ,
I think its the attitude (ego) more than the sentiment which grates on peoples nerves.:yuk:

[v1rotate]

Although I fly F27's in the UK doing freight, I still get people saying:

"Would you like to do commercial flying then?" :*

"How much more experience do you need to fly passengers" :hmm:

The Public thinks if it's not flying something of a minimum size like a 73, then you're not a "Commercial" Pilot.

[Towering Q]

Who cares what the public thinks.:ok: :ok:

[frangatang]

I was a part time instructor on 152 s then wow after the IR it was an aztec based at dysart qld and l thought wow 2 engines.Then it was an aerocommander in qld and l thought wow heavier than an aztec and youturn left on entry for the flight deck just like an airliner. Then a gulfstream turbocommander and l thought wow turbine plus pressurisation plus flight director plus rams horns controls just like concorde. Then along comes the F27 actually a backward step compared to the 840 but wow this is a heavy aircraft and will ride out turbulence on approach, not so!Along comes the BAC111 wow a jet and twice as heavy as an F27.AND THEN the 747 400 and it still gets bucked about!Then the 777 which a mate of mine says is an aztec with slightly thicker skin. And all l want to do now is fly the 840 onto yorke island again and crack a few coconuts. So this must be a case of camel to cadillac to camel,but the money is a lot better and you dont get treated like real sh?t. Its a lot lot easier as well

[compressor stall]

Who cares what the public thinks

Exactly! That's why we are/were Biscuit Designers, Russian Lighthouse keepers from Vladivostok, Traffic Light Technicians, Dolphin Tamers etc when chatting up the local wildlife.:p :p :p

[Kiwi Flyer]

In my opinion, GA in OZ and NZ is in pretty poor shape. The attitudes of ourselves towards it doesnt help either.
It is treated as third rate, sometimes even worse. You just have to look outside the square and see what happens around the rest of the world, and it is a totally different picture.
I, like many others that want to stay in GA have had to leave our beloved homelands, because their really are few viable choices in our home countries. Sad really, but the way it is! and it is I imagine to late to change. So GA forever I say:} old planes, small planes, dodgy places....you name it GA's got it!:E Logbooks of fun:ok:

Every type of Aviation has its place, and thats the way it should be, but we should respect each other in our choices;)

AND REMEMBER....NOT EVERY ONE WANTS TO BE AN AIRLINE PILOT.....ACCEPT IT...ITS TRUE...REALLY.....:p

[druglord]

GA- Definately more fun,
airlines more challenging
Eventually the fun and the challenge become routine and a charter to BGO or an ILS to minimums doesn't get the adrenaline pumping and then it's nice to have the auxilary benefits

[asw28-866]

As a GA wannabe (second career), How many in GA today would stay there if the money was not sooooo bad, verses those that really want to move on up the complexity/weight ladder to peaked caps and shiny shoes?

[Northern Chique]

I used to drive old airplanes with red and white flashing lights for a living with lotsa oldies having fun and the young fast paced ones just going some place in a plane cause the company is paying for it...

Not I drive new benz's with red and white flashing lights for a living with lotsa oldies who are nice as apple pie and the young fast paced ones who slowed rather abruptly and the insurance or the person is paying for it...

Either way I love what I do... and that is why I do it. What other way is there to live? :ok:

[prospector]

Northern Chique,
You have got it sussed, your last line says it all. When you have got as many grey hairs as me, I count myself very fortunate to have had most of my working life in a cockpit, from ag work to airline, where else can one gain as much satisfaction from ones efforts, had the immediate results of decisions made, right or wrong. Nothing to do with money, just satisfaction from a job well done. No need to count on appeal courts, either your decision was right or wrong according to the laws of nature and physics, and the satisfaction is every bit as rewarding whether in a C152 or a B744, the financial reward is different granted, but that is a different subject altogether.

Prospector

[asw28-866]

NC & Prospector,
Gents, so nice to read posts here sans whinge! I fully intend to be among your number in the next 12 months.....As for me, GA, all the way (too old for the airlines) and luckily, first career paid for the pension!