Drugs anyone?

[Chocks Away]

Qantas backed away from confrontation with its unions over random drug and alcohol testing (ATWOnline, Aug. 11) by limiting the program to the airline's executives . The decision followed a recommendation by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission last week that the trial testing program should be restricted to nonunion employees when it begins later this month. The Australian Council of Trade Unions and 10 unions within Qantas raised the issue with AIRC, claiming the proposed testing program was unfair and represented a breach of employee privacy. They threatened industrial action if the carrier persevered with its plans. Qantas and the unions agreed to further talks and will reappear before the commission Aug. 15.


Oops, there go the lil'office bar fridges...
:O

[Hypoxic Harry]

I can see the pro's and also the con's in QF testing staff at random for drug use.

What I am curious about is the fact that it has not been done in the past, so why start now? I am wondering if there has been an incedent of late take place.

[Pimp Daddy]

I've had a look at the policy and can't see anything wrong with it.

Qantas is probably one of the last large companies in the transport sector to implement this, railways do it, same in the mining industry, BHP etc.

You have to say to yourself, if someone has the lack of judgement to use illegal drugs, would you then want them excericing that same lack of judgement fixing or flying a plane?

[rammel]

I don't think that anyone has a problem with the policy, but it is the way management have said it will run. Apparently it was was not going to be too random, because when asked how people would be selected, in the reply was by looking at ammount of sick leave that had been taken by someone. So it has gone from being random to targeting people.

[Pimp Daddy]

I was the same as you Biscuit Chucker about reporting all medicine like was being touted in some circles, however looking closer (and more subjectively) it is to do with drugs that may effect your work, ie: those heavy duty cold/flu things or hayfever pills that say "do not operate heavy machinery" and there wasn't a requirement to report it, just to be aware with your doctor when getting these drugs prescibed.

[MIss Behaviour]

Pimp Daddy

I believe that some people could have an issue with non-illegal drugs eg alcohol.

It is perfectly legal (assuming an open drivers licence) to drive to work when your blood alcohol reading may be .03 however if randomly tested once at work, could be dismissed for having any alcohol reading at all.

This naturally excludes those occupations with a zero tolerance for alcohol. :eek: :eek:

[Aussierotor]

Most places i know have a "3 strike "policy.
When being tested ,asked if and what medication your on.
If positive, sent home on pay until properly tested ,and if illegal drugs present,stay off work until you pass the test again.
Same with alcohol ,P-Off until it drops below required limit..
The hardest one to pass is the good old "joint".If you enjoy them frequently,then its in your system for up to 2 weeks.
The good hard stuff doesnt last long at all.
I dont agree with the "whacky Weed' one as i cant believe your still up with the pixies the next day.
I know quite a few people on their last chance and had to give it away.

So theres no big deal in it unless you participate,which quite a few do--------there lies the problem.

I should say (hope) pilots are clean ,but in these days of "duty of care" regulations ,could you imagine the concequences to Qantas if it was proven they allowed someone to work effected by booze or drugs and they caused some king of accident or harmed passengers in any way.

Just that word "random" goes a long way in a court-------it shows they do it.

And if ya real lucky some bird might even hold it for you when you pee in the bottle.

[TIMMEEEE]

I cant see what the problem here is guys.

If you're on medication then fine - as long as it is within the confines of acceptabilities as prescribed by the CAO's.
(ie: Antibiotics and other non stimulants).

As far as being detected with something in your system you would undergo counselling by a company doctor and retested.
Those not indulging in say ecstacy (MDMA - whose use is ripe amongst some members of the aviation industry), Cocaine, Heroin,Marijuana,speed etc or even anabolic steriods (non subscription) have nothing to fear.

Judging by the number of people operating machinery/equipment at airports in the USA that have tested positive to class A drugs then I reackon its about bloody time.
Even in Japan some airlines have their pilots blow into the bag at sign on.

Bloody good idea I reackon.

[Pimp Daddy]

It is perfectly legal (assuming an open drivers licence) to drive to work when your blood alcohol reading may be .03 however if randomly tested once at work, could be dismissed for having any alcohol reading at all.

This naturally excludes those occupations with a zero tolerance for alcohol.

Given that at Melbourne Airport definately and most likely other airports the there is a zero alcohol policy for operating equipment on the airport. This is not a Qantas policy but an airport operator one which Qantas must comply with.

Starting to see why this stuff is happening?

[tenke]

...And American Airforce pilots should be tested for drugs (speed) which they are prescribed...!!!
Just because drugs are prescribed doesn't make it ok.
Nor does being illegal make it not ok flying wise, necessarily, as long is one isn't under the influence/effect of the drug.
Moral and legal stances are a separate issue.

[Winstun]

I cant see what the problem here is guys.....Those not indulging in say ecstacy (MDMA - whose use is ripe amongst some members of the aviation industry), Cocaine, Heroin,Marijuana,speed etc or even anabolic steriods (non subscription) have nothing to fear. This is not really about fear....its about relavence. If there is to be testing, it should be done by police/aviation authorities, and on an agreed international standard if testing an international operation. It is no secret that alcholic abuse is a significant health problem in all walks of Australian society. With this knowledge, suggesting that a company would risk embarissing itself by using proper random spot preflight alcohol content checks is naive. Busting responsible occasional recreational users of herion and marijuana is of no medical or aviation risk significance and only serves to deflect attention away from the real widespread problem, alcohol. I do agree that MDMA and cocaine are very dangerous and which are usually consumed in conjunction with alcohol. What results is more Aussie medical know-how. The one or two pilots that puffed a joint last weekend are grounded while several dozen obese borderline heart attacks with hangovers continue to ply the skies....:ooh:

[imabell]

the us airforce readily hands out amphetamines to its combat pilots. this was shown on a recent documentary about the subject. pilots in iraq were "popping them like candy".
they had to sign a letter of voluntary acceptance. if they didn't sign it they would or could be taken off the flight line. the feeling was that they would be taken off flying duties.

the powers that controlled it said that it managed the fatigue of long flights. all of the arguments put forward (not directly) were answered with the point of view that it did no harm and raised the bar on performance. the fact that some of these "high" pilots were responsible for attacking their friends, and killing them didn't seem to rate.

they must know something we don't. then again maybe we should all be given uppers. we could do away with cao 48 and say we we will operate on a fatigue based management system.

how "high" can you fly???

[Captain Custard]

Winstun,

responsible occasional recreational users of herion

Are you right?? That's an oxymoron if I ever read one!

PS: Those "obsese heart attacks" you waffle on about probably wouldn't pass their medical (if you hadn't noticed the ramp-up of standards in recent years: you DO do a medical don't you?).

[GoGirl]

CC really does have a good point there Winstun

That was a pretty irresponsible comment to make.


Regards
GG

[tobzalp]

Operations Normal then.......

[Winstun]

GG, The only point I see from CC, and you is that good old simple Aussie mentality (much like Kaptain). Clutching at words, instead of grasping the idea...:rolleyes: how about responsible comma occasional recreational users of herion By responsible, I mean showing up for work in a completely fit mental and physical state. Something not practised on a very frequent basis by many airline pilots worldwide that abuse alcohol on layovers. It is because of the legality and common excessive use of this drug, that it is the threat to the public. If you knew something about medicine, you would know that pure heroin (refined opium) is far less damaging to the body than alcohol. If by responsible, you mean, never broken the law....then I imagine we are talking about all the airline pilots that have never driven above the speed limit, cheated on their taxes, cheated on their wife, etc, etc. I do not condone the (very infrequent) use of illegal drugs, but it is the (frequently used and abused) legal drug, alcohol that is the safety threat to the good public here. BTW, CC are you fat? It is not hard to pass an aviation medical which is plainly evident from the all the obese airline pilots that ply the skies. It is a medical fact that obesity is a number one cause of heart attack and many other health problems. All beer swigging overweight pilots should be banned from cockpits before we start busting weekend marijuana puffers.....:rolleyes:

[TIMMEEEE]

Winstun - good to see your back and displaying the distinct lack of intelligence and blatant stupidity which appear to be your trademarks.

So you reackon its ok for certain pilots to indulge in smoking drugs and attack others for being overweight and some hungover?

To put the record straight Winstun if I or others I know had any doubt as to a crewmembers sobriety or the inability of them to do their job then they walk and dont have any business on my flight deck.
That is a government law and regulation under the CAO's WINSTUN in case you didnt know.

To compare alchol to heroin use is pure ****e.
When you buy alcohol you know what you are getting and the effects have been very well catalogued over the last few thousand years or so.
When you take heroin do you really know what you are getting or what its been cut with????
NO.
As to pure heroin where is this available from because most addicts would just love to know as well as the cops because it results in more drug deaths..

If heroin users do shoot up with pure heroin this is typically when they do overdose and die - thats a statistical fact.
Not to mention the addictive nature of heroin or the fact that heroin alone accounts for some 30% of break-ins,street crimes such as assault (for heroin money etc).
Talked to any heroin users and they'll tell you themselves how it devours their soul through its pure addictive qualities.

Give me the amber fluid anyday.

Whilst we're at it Winstun you talk of obese pilots and the danger of heart attacks.
Dont judge a book by its cover Winstun as an increasing number of younger people that appear to be fit are joining the ranks of those with heart disease/cancer/stroke etc.

Secondly Winstun you are obviously ignorant of many reports issued by both the New England Journal of Medicine and the British Medical Journal about the use of Marijuana and Cannibis as well as Ecstacy (MDMA).
These have highlighted the dangers of their use with respect to such little subtleties as Marijuana induced schizophrenia and damage the short term memory for MDMA users.
And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

These dangers have been addressed in all the media - TV/Newspaper/Radio so even the likes of yourself Winstun should not be immune.

As to pilots flying whilst "hungover" I hope you have a way to:

a. Define the term, and
b. Prove it.

These are very serious allegations Winstun so if you are aware of these practices I suggest you act on them according to the law.
With respect to pilots smoking dope on the weekends I suppose you were witness to this and never addressed those responsible to their face???

I thought as much.

In short Winstun the law is the law like it or not.
Bust the rules and you get caught in which case you wont get my sympathy.

As for the rest of your post Winstun I guess you know what everyone else thinks.

[Kaptin M]

You're waffling, Winstun!

[Winstun]

displaying the distinct lack of intelligence and blatant stupidity :hmm:…a good introductory outline to your post…So you reackon its ok for certain pilots to indulge in smoking drugs…never implied such. What I do state is that it is rather meaningless to target the rare off duty cannabis user while hundreds of ill-effected alcohol users ply the skies daily. if I or others I know had any doubt as to a crewmembers sobriety or the inability of them to do their job then they walk and dont have any business on my flight deck. :p Thats very cute but not effective…problem is the my is often the they. That is a government law and regulation under the CAO's WINSTUN in case you didnt know. Yes, I have rarely known of an airline pilot to break this law…..because the law has vague definition and interpretation. To compare alchol to heroin use is pure ****e Correct, heroin use/abuse levels are not an even slightly significant threat to the good fare paying public. I was describing heroin damage to the body from a clinical viewpoint, I do not disagree with your other comments on this drug except that it is not an relevant (like marijuana) to public air safety. Give me the amber fluid anyday :ooh:...That about says it all…..you and many. Unfortunately many are not aware of the actual effects of alcohol on mental alertness even after 8/12/24/48 hours of use. an increasing number of younger people that appear to be fit are joining the ranks of those with heart disease/cancer/stroke etc. :rolleyes: ..love to know where you gleaned this scientific fact….so whats your point? Its healthy and acceptable to be an obese pilot? These dangers have been addressed in all the media - TV/Newspaper/Radio Are you not majorly embarrassed to quote your knowledge source from the common Australian media? :sad: As to pilots flying whilst "hungover"
"a. Define the term." Affected by previous alcohol intake, suggest min 48 hours with proper rest prior to any operation.
"b. Prove it." Easy, walk into any worldwide airline layover watering hole and meet all the drunk pilots flying within the next 24 hours. These are very serious allegations Winstun so if you are aware of these practices I suggest you act on them according to the law… In short Winstun the law is the law like it or not… Bust the rules and you get caught in which case you wont get my sympathy. Give me a friggin bone!! You still don’t get it, do you? There is no effective law to prevent fat alcohol effected people like you and your mates from risking the lives of the good public on a significantly widespread daily basis. The law is the law and the law needs to be changed. Damn right its serious...and the sooner these people are not flying affected, the better. I think your medically educated passenger is far less concerned about the rare pilot that may have puffed on a little bit of marijuana or heroin many days previous. Its really astonishing that pilots like Timee, given the responsibility of a multi million dollar machine, cant even comprehend the reality on this subject. Or maybe they dont want to. :hmm:

[Pimp Daddy]

A thought that just crossed my mind - would use of an illicit drug mean that you were now not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a license issued by CASA (be it pilot, FE, LAME etc)?

[Kaptin M]

""b. Prove it." Easy, walk into any worldwide airline layover watering hole and meet all the drunk pilots flying within the next 24 hours."
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.", is the old adage - and you are full of a LITTLE knowledge, Winstun.
Australian regulations stipulate pilots must STOP drinking 8 hours prior to flight. That means that immediately prior to the 8 hours (before flight), they can be falling over drunk....or alternatively, have had one sip of a glass of wine.
In Singapore and Malaysia, the rule is 10 hours.
In Japan, 12 hours.

So your bullsh!t of 24 hours is another example of you displaying your total ignorance in this matter - in spite of your claim that you are a pilot.

"There is no effective law to prevent fat alcohol effected people like you and your mates from risking the lives of the good public on a significantly widespread daily basis."
Precisely. EVERY pilot holding whichever class of licence he holds, has passed a Government dictated medical test, administered by a Government approved doctor (a D.M.E.).
You, Winstun are a no-one, a nothing, whose opinion is unimportant.
You are free to voice it here on PPRuNe, but be prepared to have it refuted with FACTS, when you print bs.

"The law is the law and the law needs to be changed."
Go for it!

"I think......not very often, Winstun.. "your medically educated passenger is far less concerned about the rare pilot that may have puffed on a little bit of marijuana or heroin many days previous."
Both marijuana and heroin are ILLEGAL - whether taken "many days previous"..or 6/12/36/72 months ago.
ILLEGAL, and if you're found to have been using those or any other ILLEGAL substances, then you can expect the full weight of the law to be thrown at you.

You're a bl00dy clown, Winstun, for having the stupidity to even suggest that use of that sort of stuff might be considered okay. Twit!

[Whiskery]

Ahhhh..................Winnie. Give me half an hour and I'll bring the boat around. The fish are really on the bite at present.:D

[Kaptin M]

That could well be the case, Whiskery, however we all know that there are plenty of Winstuns around..."Yeah, I fly a corporate jet....50,000 feet...got 5 ATPL's....nothing to it. But even though I'm a pilot (wink wink), I think it's disgraceful the way these airline pilots behave. Look at that crew over there (waves...Hi guys), I'll bet they're going out in about 24 hours time, and look how much booze they're drinking."

The Winstuns around are those with a little knowledge and a BIG envy. There is, in fact, a widely held belief by many members of the public that 24 hours is the cut-off for alcohol intake.
By printing the sort of post that Winstun has, he then re-inforces FICTION into the minds of non-aviation people reading his tripe, leading to further degradation of our profession.

A lot of Winnie's stuff is harmless. The sort of garbage he has posted above is mischievous bordering on malicious!

[Winstun]

Here we go…I thought it was second grade today but its back to kindy with kaptin.....:hmm: That means that immediately prior to the 8 hours (before flight), they can be falling over drunk.... EXACTLY my point. I am well aware of all these regulations. When I stated 24 hours, I was referring to the next day, I could have said 23 hours or 25 hours. The point is that the next day (and even longer), well after the regulatory time limit, there is a significant effect of alcohol on mental state and alertness. This is not known or accepted by many including yourself, nevertheless it is a significant safety issue and of great concern to the good public. Obesity significantly increases your risk to a coronary or diabetic related event. Equally, flying with legal hangovers raises the risk of errors and accidents. That you passed an aviation medical some months previous is of small comfort to the good fare paying passenger.
Both marijuana and heroin are ILLEGAL
Not totally correct. Personal use of marijuana is legal in some jurisdictions throughout the world. I was not suggesting that use of illegal drugs is OK, merely trying to put things in perspective for you, which I see I have failed to do.
Envy? Yes indeed, I think it is you who is envious. Of my knowledge, my achievements, my status. Frankly, I could not think of much worse than the boring work of an airline pilot flying a tired hull down low with the attached poor remuneration, taxed 50% and in Aussie dollars, or otherwise living in Japan on pitiful contract work... yeah right…:rolleyes: .Possibly what leads you to drink. :{ BTW still waiting to hear further of your only NINE ATPLs since EIGHTY NINE. :p

[Whiskery]

Kap .........come on, Winstun's a kid with access to a few flying mags and the world wide web. :cool:

[Islander Jock]

Wintsun isn't by any chance related to Neil Robertson is he?

[404 Titan]

Winstun

BTW still waiting to hear further of your only NINE ATPLs since EIGHTY NINE.
BTW we’re still waiting to hear what type of plane you fly around in at FL510.
:E :hmm:

[Winstun]

well, well...
we have one here named "Whiskery" that interests include "victoria bitter".....one that likely hangs out with heavy drinkers of the WA oil & gas industry.....one that interests include drinking.... :ooh:
Its one thing to be embarrased by my medical analysis of your less than flattering drug habits which affect your work. Its quite another to have to endure this well versed schoolboy pandering banter between yourselves, distracting from this important subject. :rolleyes:
Lets try to keep to the topic at hand, shall we? :hmm:
BTW, 404, for your continuing education, I can think of many airplanes that are FAA certified to FL510 and I am typed on a few of them. ;)

[Islander Jock]

bwwwaaahhhh!

Somewhat presumptuous in your analysis of my working acquaintences Wintsun. Couldn't have missed the target further if you tried.:p

Wonder if you make the same sort of incorrect assumptions whilst in command of the myriad of aircraft you fly? :confused:

[tobzalp]

My favourite part was when Winstun said something stupid.

[404 Titan]

Winstun

BTW, 404, for your continuing education, I can think of many airplanes that are FAA certified to FL510 and I am typed on a few of them.
Oh Winnie, I am very well aware that there are a few corporate jets that can fly at FL510. The question I asked was which one do you currently fly. Why are you being so evasive to this very simple question? Maybe you are trying to hide something?
:E ;)

[Winstun]

well, 404, I'm not hiding from a hangover, which is what I imagine you are often doing, after indulging in your interest...drinking ....:ooh:
Now, why would 404 be itching to know what I am currently gettin round in at FL510 ?
Is it because he is:
a. nosey
b. green with envy
c. think he could steal my job
d. all of the above
Now, why would I not fufill his request?
Because:
a. its none of his business
b. I have scant regard for his fufillment
c. he wouldnt have a hope in hell
d. all of the above
But 404, for your continuing aviation education, some types that are FL510 certfied: Learjets 31,45,60, Citations 7, 10, Falcon 900B/EX, Gulfstream 500, Global Express. I have flown nearly all these types and typed in a few of them. :ok: FL510....its not new and its no real mystery :rolleyes: ...except maybe to an airbus peon based in a sh*thole like HK gettin less than half my coin. :{

[Next Generation]

He probably thinks you're making it all up!!!!!!

I know I do.

[Pimp Daddy]

But 404, for your continuing aviation education, some types that are FL510 certfied: Lear 31,45,60, Citaion 7, 10, Falcon 900, Gulfstream 500, Global Express. I have flown nearly all these types

Winstun - did you get those aircraft from www.flightsim.com or somewhere else?

Do you use FS2002 or FS2004?

[Kaptin M]

"I have flown nearly all these types and typed in a few of them.
Which one are you typing in right now, Winno? :cool:
Sounds as though you indulge in smoking some of the green weed, Winsie, to help you get up to FL510.

"Learjets 31,45,60, Citations 7, 10, Falcon 900B/EX, Gulfstream 500, Global Express".......from their home page:
"Global Express is an up-to-the-minute magazine resource for teachers of 8-14 year olds on world events and global issues in the news."

Onya Win - stay off dem drugs!

[404 Titan]

Winnie, I am very well aware which corporate jets are capable of FL510. That wasn’t the question I asked. I, and I am sure everyone else on this forum would like to know which aircraft you are flying now. Is that such a hard question to answer? I don’t think so.
FL510....its not new and its no real mystery ...except maybe to an airbus peon based in a sh*thole like HK gettin less than half my coin.
My wife and I personally love Hong Kong. If we didn’t we wouldn’t be here. As for how much you earn compared to me. “DREAM ON”.
:rolleyes: :cool:

[Life as a journey]

Winstun

My brother is a heroin user. His life is destroyed. His mind is muddled beyond understanding. His sentences are no longer cohesive, contradicting what he said only minutes earlier.

His friends are limited to those who wish to feed off him. His goals in life are non-existent, but for the next opportunity to escape reality.

The hurt he has done to our parents is immeasurable.

Are you suggesting the occassional use of this hideous drug is ok, if you're an airline pilot?

Are you suggesting the occassional usage of marijuana is ok, if you're an airline pilot?

I am an airline pilot.

I ply the skies in a heavy Boeing.

I work hard, like the rest of the genuine pilots who contribute to this thread.

I know what the job demands; in and out, back to front, night and day.

And I know what the substances you speak of do to a person - intimately.

You are wrong; plainly, simply, wrong, to suggest that heroin is okay as an occassional drug.

In defense of my brother and on behalf of my aviating colleagues and the travelling public, I respectfully ask that you retract your statement.

[tenke]

I believe drugs have the potential to completely destroy a persons charactor and livlihood. These drugs may take the form of Alcohol, Marijuana, Cocain, Speed (etc?) and prescribed and over the counter drugs.
However some drugs can be used without such destruction. (possibly with the exception of herion use; bearing in mind morphine is used in hospitals!).
What is the intention of drug testing? What are it's capabilities?
If drug testing can catch a person who is impaired and
under the influence of a drug(it should be all drugs as above) at work I am prepared to suffer a urinary or blood test, and even risk my own livelihood (false positives) etc.
If drug testing catches an occassional marihauna smoker who is at work with no impairment and destroys their livlihood then I am against it.
The fact that some drugs are illegal is not the issue here. Nor whether anyone should take drugs at all, on moral grounds. I am sure there are many people out there who don't meet others moral standards in their private lives. And many others who break the law in one fashion or another and are perfectly capable aircrew.

[Winstun]

In defense of my brother and on behalf of my aviating colleagues and the travelling public, I respectfully ask that you retract your statement. And what statement might that be? As far as your post goes, I’m touched but give me a friggin bone!! 11 million children die of malnutrition and disease each year, and some fatcat airline pilot thinks I could care less bout his smack addict brother…:rolleyes: For the last friggin time, I never said taking heroin is OK. From a purely clinical view, I was merely pointing out that it is less damaging to the body than alcohol. I am quite aware of and familiar with the addictive properties and reality of heroin addicts, as I am of those addicted, abused, and killed by alcohol. If able, I would suggest you take your brother overseas to one of many accommodating countries that have effective long term cold turkey programs. What I am saying is that the numbers of recreational users of these drugs in the pilot community is a non-issue to the traveling public safety interests in comparison to the numbers of alcohol affected pilots plying the skies daily at less than their desired peak mental alertness. :zzz:
I know what the job demands; in and out, back to front, night and day. Well, I must say, I’m so friggin happy for you and real glad you can fly at night…being a boeing pilot and all…:rolleyes:

[Towlie]

Wanna get High?

Hang on I think I've got it........

It's the tune to Funky Town!....."wont you take me to a funky town".....

Remember.....if you go to the pool dont forget to bring a TOWL!!!

:E

[ferris]

From a purely clinical view, I was merely pointing out that it is less damaging to the body than alcohol.
I would have to agree (to a certain extent) with that statement. But as you claim experience with addiction, I'm sure you'll agree, it is a flippant and stupid statement. Surely the issue (with either alcohol or "hard drugs") is not the effect on the physical body of those drugs, it is the effect on the psyche that is the problem?

And you claim to have experienced loss to addiction, yet show a breathtaking lack of compassion to another person similarly touched? You are a liar.

[tobzalp]

Ok so WINSTUN. You are a high flying jet driver who specialises in medicine on the side. You obviously are wasting your time on these forums, go and cure sickness throughout the world please. You could fly there at F510 the whole way! That would be grand. But realistically I and many here take solace that we are not you. Next time you think of posting, go here first........



http://users.bigpond.net.au/plazbot/roomofcare.jpg

[Life as a journey]

You have obviously never heard of Karma mate.

There's a lot of it coming your way, making those sort of comments.

Never mind, you're forgiven.

But I suggest you try and ease out some of that hatred you've got there.

Must be a hell of a weight to carry around.

To clarify, I know piloting, and there is no room for substance abuse in this job.

Bring on the tests.

[Next Generation]

Winstun

Why so many types??

Can't you hold down a job or do you just collect endorsements ??????????????????

[TIMMEEEE]

Winstun - my late father was a man of very few words but when he opened his mouth it was worth listening to.
The following quote relates directly to you and I'm sure most on this site would agree:

"How do you legislate against stupidity?"

Get the point Winstun?

[Boney]

Winstun - you do make a valid point, despite all the detractors.

The old drug test.

Don't know if it is true but I heard that the hard drugs (Cocaine, popping pills etc.) are only detectable in your system for a couple of days. However the old 'wacky weed' is detectable for a fortnight, up to a month or so if you smoke regularly. So as far as I can see it, official drug tests are the same as the American Foreign Policy, that is, "can't get the one we really want so we will get the one we can"?

Umm ..... 2 pilots .....

Pilot 1, smokes a bit of green stuff on his days off but rarely drinks.

Pilot 2, is a piss head, but he is SO honourable because he/she ALWAYS stops drinking 8 hours before sign-on, after 6 or so bourbons.

One is legal and the other (in the eyes of the majority) is a crook that does not deserve a licence, but I know who's aircraft I would rather be a pax in the back of!

[Lodown]

In a prior job, I used to go through random drug tests every six months. I'm no authority on the matter, but we had to pee in a bottle and we were told the urine test could detect marijuana use anytime in the previous two weeks. There was also a lock of hair taken. About 2cm wide and as low to the scalp as the scissors could get. The hair test detected cocaine, heroin, etc for the period of time relative to the length of hair, or about six months.

As I mentioned, I'm no authority on the subject. Just information from what I was told. Both tests were also very accurate - supposedly. I was never in a position to verify the results.

[Chocks Away]

Marijuana aint so innocent anymore, I hate to tell you guys.
The guarantee of "purity" has gone and given most now, is hydroponically grown, the product is laced with insecticides, tobacco, hallucinates etc...

... it should make us all think twice...