Qantas admits planes too late

[Wirraway]

Tues "The Australian"

Qantas admits planes too late
By Matt Price and Steve Creedy
August 12, 2003

REELING from public discontent, Qantas has formed a crisis committee to combat chronic flight delays and has hired top political consultants to assess its damaging image problems.

The number of Qantas flights leaving within three minutes of their scheduled departure times has reportedly dipped as low as 37 per cent in recent months - and below 70 per cent under a broader 15-minute international standard.

Both figures are below accepted international performance standards.

Disquiet over Qantas service prompted the federal Government to consider putting pressure on airlines to publish records of flight delays, as is the case in the US.

While defending Qantas's service and safety record, executive general manager sales and marketing John Borghetti admitted the airline was aware of growing passenger discontent.

"There is no doubt our on-time performance needs to improve," Mr Borghetti told The Australian.

"A Qantas team, including a number of senior and experienced executives, is working on a range of initiatives to improve on-time performance across our network."

Qantas has employed Crosby/Textor, the polling and research consultancy run by Liberal Party pollster Mark Textor and former Liberal Party national director Lynton Crosby, to assess its image problems.

Several federal politicians have been interviewed by the consultancy, including Country-Liberal MP Dave Tollner. The Northern Territory MP, who flew frequently between Darwin and Canberra, said he had been brutally frank with the researchers.

"They asked for positives, and I said safety," he said. "They asked for negatives and I said lost luggage, delays, unscheduled overnight stays, high prices, monopoly - you name it, I said it."

Mr Tollner said "at least a quarter" of Qantas flights were late and another quarter resulted in lost luggage.

Sources said the Qantas performance review had been operating for more than a month.

Mr Borghetti said: "We have made significant progress, but we know more work needs to be done."

He said Qantas - which carried more than 27million passengers last year to 76 destinations in 33 countries - was still struggling to cope with post-September 11 changes in Australia, especially the demise of Ansett.

He admitted Canberra had "special punctuality issues", including fog, which required particular attention.

He said that despite estimates that world airlines would lose $US30billion ($46billion) in the two years since the World Trade Centre attacks, Qantas had invested $7billion in new aircraft and other infrastructure.

A source said Qantas records showed roughly 85 per cent of Qantas flights now arrived within 15 minutes of schedule, which was "good by world standard".

A spokesman for Transport Minister John Anderson said smaller carriers were pressuring the Government to force airlines to release their punctuality records to highlight their superiority over Qantas.

Performance indicators for the top 10 US airlines are published regularly by the US Transportation Department.

"It's something we're seriously looking at," the spokesman said last night.

=========================================

[Sperm Bank]

He admitted Canberra had "special punctuality issues", including fog, which required particular attention.

Perhaps they are finally coming to the realisation that we need some CAT 11/111 landing systems put in place in Oz. Also some dedicated LVP (low vis procedures) as they have in other parts of the world.

[Three Bars]

"Safety before schedule"

Used to be hard enough getting away on time when we supposedly had 3000 people more than we needed. :confused:

[Keg]

It wouldn't be the first group 'specially formed' to look at punctuality and it won't be the last!!

Just wondering out loud and not having a shot at anyone in particular but it'd be interesting to do some research (and probably a thesis in there for someone with the spare time) on whether the constant harping on about costs, out sourcing, SARS, doom and gloom is reflecting itself in the on time departures area?!?!?!

Not saying that it is, just that it may be one of the contributing factors and it'd be interesting to actually find out. There are already a lot of peopple in any given work place who just don't care about what goes on. Talk of all of the above just increases that number of people. Makes it hard to go that 'extra mile' if you think you're about to be out sourced.

[woftam]

Some realistic transit times and keeping the crew with the A/C might help!!!!
No committees/research companies needed, just a bit of common sense.
Sadly lacking unfortunately.
:(

[Kaptin M]

What an admission to make!
QANTAS "management" has virtually publically admitted that THEY have no idea what the problems within their company are, nor how to fix them.

Instead, they are willing to spend millions of dollars employing an OUTSIDE consultancy firm -
"Qantas has employed Crosby/Textor, the polling and research consultancy run by Liberal Party pollster Mark Textor and former Liberal Party national director Lynton Crosby, to assess its image problems."

And then Dicko, Jacko, etc, will grab a HUGE bonus (once again) in recognition of their "expertise".

It would appear to me that QANTAS is now being bled for as much as it can be by a self-confessed, out-of-touch management......
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/halopig.gif
"Snouts in the trough", was the expression coined by a journo some time back, from memory.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/halopig.gif

Time to sacrifice a few more of the pawns at the coal face, to subsidise the bishops, rooks, and King's unquenchable thirst for $$$$'s.

I'll betcha the "common workers" at QF could give a fairly spot-on account of WHERE and WHY the problems are arising, and HOW to fix them, at almost ZERO cost.
But that wouldn't allow the UNnecessary expenditure, with associated probable kickbacks!

[ER2nd.]

ah.... Consultants......what a bottomless money pit for questionable returns. I remember when they (TAA) got a Consultant in to redesign their livery...the one that heralded in the Airbus A300 back in early 80's. Orange thing with other bits and bobs. A million bucks odd (just for the Consultant) and the paint was hardly dry before along came "Australian Airlines" to wash it all away. Whilst that was a brilliant move (redirection) by JS (I guess I'm a member of his fan club!) just goes to show how quickly things can change....and so much for that.

[Wirraway]

ABC Net
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2003/s922517.htm

Calls for improvement to flights running to time Reporter: Tanya Nolan

ELEANOR HALL: Staying on corporate matters, Qantas is coming under renewed pressure from its competitors today, as the Federal Government considers a growing passenger outcry for the airline to run on time.

At the same time, its New Zealand competitor is upping the ante by slashes its Trans-Tasman airfares by almost half.

With Qantas under pressure from smaller airlines, the Federal Government is soon to announce a new policy to encourage the carriers to meet public performance indicators on scheduling and timetabling, as Tanya Nolan reports.

TANYA NOLAN: It's not the quality of the food or how comfortable the seats are. According to Virgin Blue, the number one concern for passengers is getting to where they want to go on time and the airline has been leading the drive to have a system similar to the one in the United States, where carriers publish their performance indicators showing whether they're meeting their flight timetables.

Head of Communications and Strategy with Virgin Blue, David Huttner.

DAVID HUTTNER: We want to be judged and we want to raise the bar in the industry and you know what? There are months probably out there when we don't have a good month either and so, you know, that's a good internal motivator for our people to look at how we can do better.

So we'd love to publish the numbers, we'd like Qantas to have their motivator to get their people to do a better job, because at the end of the day the consumers benefit from the whole thing.

TANYA NOLAN: A spokesman for Federal Transport Minister, John Anderson, says the Government has been fielding passenger complaints about flight delays and a decision is imminent on whether a voluntary performance policy will be introduced, but stresses the Federal Government's main concern is passenger safety, not airline competition.

Qantas says it's happy to keep talking to the Government over the issue and Spokesman, Michael Sharp, says the airline has established a committee to look at scheduling issues.

MICHAEL SHARP: It is obviously an issue that airlines always focus on and we do have a team that works on trying to improve our on-time performance. The report says that about 85 per cent of our flights arrive within 15 minutes of their scheduled arrival time. That is good by world standards, but we know that our customers expect us to do better than tha, and we do have a team working on to improve that.

TANYA NOLAN: Jim Thorn, publisher of Australian Aviation magazine, says evidence would show Qantas is failing to meet international accepted performance standards, with only 37 per cent of flights leaving within three minutes of scheduled departure times, and less than 70 per cent taking off within 15 minutes.

In most cases, however, there are mitigating circumstances, such as weather conditions, technical malfunctions, special passenger needs, and maintenance issues.

But Mr Thorn says that doesn't excuse Qantas in all circumstances.

JIM THORN: Quite honestly, I think some of their scheduling is a bit too close. As the afternoon develops, typically on the city line services, there's not a great difference, I should say, between planes leaving at three o'clock and four o'clock and five o'clock, as you get delays through the system and people sometimes are on planes that are running 40 or 50 minutes late, but they're leaving almost in tandem with another one.

TANYA NOLAN: And Mr Thorn says evidence would show passengers are growing increasingly angry at how the airline responds to their complaints.

JIM THORN: I think that airline actually does need to take a long hard look at what it does do with its customers. I think there's many facets of the Qantas operation that management should be dealing with that they aren't, and it would be a damn good thing if they got down and talked to their customers a bit more to find out what people think of Qantas.

TANYA NOLAN: Qantas Spokesman Michael Sharp says that's exactly what the airline is doing, recently employing a top political consultancy to help it manage its public image.

MICHAEL SHARP: We do communicate regularly, or as regularly as we can, with all the different interested stakeholders as they're sometimes called in Qantas. Improving our on-time performance is just part of our overall efforts to improve the product and service we offer to our customers, to the travelling public, in what is a very, very competitive environment.

TANYA NOLAN: And business is about to get tougher, with the announcement by Air New Zealand today to slash one of the most competitive routes, the Trans-Tasman, with airfares falling by as much as 45 per cent.

This comes as the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and its New Zealand counterpart prepare to make a final decision in September about the half-billion dollar merger deal proposed by the two airlines, but which appears to find popularity only between the carriers themselves.

ELEANOR HALL: Tanya Nolan with our report.

===========================================

[Orville]

There is only one way to find out what the problem is, get out from behind your desk and go and look. Ask those that work at the coal face.

There is congestion on the apron too many a/c leaving at the same time. Crew waiting for load sheet to be down loaded, which can't happen until the a/c is locked up. Cabin crew insisting on extra bottles of wine before closing up etc. Not enough pushout tugs. Managers are allowed to change efficient system that have operated perfectly for many years but some Guru thinks he can do it better. Lost passengers, does anybody think that other airlines plant these passengers on the competition to delay their a/c, it's a possiblity.

But still is the airline really worried about going 3 minutes late, they have more important things to worry about. New uniforms for cabin crew, New A/C, Engineers that won't sign up to an EBA, Alcohol and drug use at work, SARS, Terrorists, you name it, its one big head ache.

Who would want to run an airline, there must be some BIG incentives at the pointy end , oh and not to mention threats of industrial action around the time of the World Rugby Cup ?????

[Wirraway]

Wed "The Australian"

Qantas to reveal delays
By Luke McIlveen, Steve Creedy and Steven Swinford
August 13, 2003

QANTAS agreed last night to work with the federal Government on a performance review system that would allow consumers to monitor airlines' lateness and tendency to lose luggage.

Transport Minister John Anderson ordered his department to collate all flight delays and publish a consumer index of the best and worst airlines.

Qantas, under fire from customers angry about late and cancelled flights, said it would work with the Transport Department to introduce the monitoring system.

The move comes after The Australian revealed yesterday that Qantas had appointed former Liberal Party national director Lynton Crosby to help fix image problems stemming from the flight delays and other passenger complaints.

A spokesman for Mr Anderson said the "on-time performance reviews" would be conducted by a branch of the Department of Transport and the Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics.

"We have written to the major airlines asking them to take part in this," the spokesman said.

"It has to be a co-operative approach. We don't have the power to compel any of the airlines to do this."

While the reviews would be voluntary, the department would be prepared to cross-check the information provided by airlines with official air traffic control records.

The major airlines yesterday backed the reviews.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon defended his airline's record but admitted it could do better.

"Our on-time performance is amongst the world's best, and so is our service," he said.

"However, we are the first to acknowledge that we can do better and that our overall performance in recent times has been impacted by rapid growth following the collapse of Ansett and heightened security arrangements at airports."

Qantas says 85 per cent of its planes now depart within 15 minutes of the scheduled departure time, which compares with a June average for 17 US carriers of 82.4 per cent.

Virgin, which claims its on- time performance is about 90 per cent, praised the decision as a victory for "consumer transparency."

"We welcome the review and we believe we will look better than Qantas," Virgin Blue spokesman David Huttner said. "But even if we don't, it's a great motivator for our staff and our people."

======================================

[invertedlandings]

A question for the VB guys- how do you measure on- time departure( is it a person recording or by electronic measurement- form what I gather (non PDC) you don't have ACARS....
Just a question, it is NOT a criticism

[virgin boy]

All On time performance is caculated using the times taken from the flight logs. May not be as quick as getting the data from ACARS, however the times are as entered by the flight crew.

[Rabbit 1]

Not any mention though about the pax, who after checking in then take a stroll through the terminal looking at all the goodies on display, chatting away on their mobile and all the while the terminal P/A is pleading for them to come to the departure gate. In days of old, they normally would have caught a Greyhound. How times have changed. Catch a Boeing instead!

[Capt Claret]

and of course the tech crew would never enter an on time departure simply because they'd negotiated with the POCO, regardless of actual off blocks time!! ;) :yuk:

[WalterMitty]

If I read it right the group of executives that got QF in the brown stuff in the first place are being asked to investigate ways to improve the performance. So they'll set their benchmarks on the current performance and then when they whip it back into the shape that it had been prior to all this restrucuring etc. etc. they'll be able to claim a performance bonus. How do I become part of this????

[Wirraway]

Sat "Sydney Morning Herald"

When it comes to take-off, it's not all plane sailing
By Kirsty Needham and Gerard Noonan
August 16, 2003

More than half of the Qantas domestic flights leaving Sydney Airport during yesterday's peak morning rush were late.

Sighting actual gate departures by Qantas and Virgin Blue planes, a Herald survey revealed lateness was common at Australia's largest airport.

Many of the delays were minor, but aviation analysts said the exercise highlighted the fact Australia had no publicly available data on flight delays.

"Talking to fellow travellers, you hear they have problems," said Peter Harbison of the Asia Pacific Centre for Aviation.

"But it is a question of whether it is getting worse or better.

"I find it incomprehensible that we don't have mandatory reporting."

Seventeen of 25 Qantas flights were late yesterday morning; 12 by more than three minutes and two by more than 15 minutes.

Virgin Blue, with a smaller fleet and fewer departures, fared better, with only one flight delayed by more than three minutes in the 6am to 9am slot.

Qantas has disputed the figures, quoting its own rarely published computer data, which, according to a Qantas spokesman, "shows 17 of 25 flights left early, on time or within three minutes of scheduled departure time".

Qantas acknowledged that two of the flights were more than 15 minutes late, which was the international benchmark for measuring lateness, and said it could improve its record.

"That is 8 per cent of flights, and by any world standards, having 92 per cent of flights leave within 15 minutes of scheduled departure is an extremely good result," the Qantas spokesman said.

The average lateness for Qantas flights during the morning rush was four minutes.

Lunchtime saw one Qantas flight 29 minutes overdue, the next 16 minutes late and the third 18 minutes late.

An unusual factor when it came to measuring flight punctuality was a prominent tarmac digital clock showing a time three minutes later than the times on the computerised information billboard in the Qantas terminal.

Air Services Australia said data collected by the air traffic control towers included actual departure and arrival times, not whether planes were late or early.

The Airport Co-ordination Authority reports to the Federal Government twice a year on delays of more than 15 minutes at the airport, but said the seasonal data was confidential.

"Generally, only 13 to 15 per cent of flights operate outside the tolerance," said the authority's chief executive, Ernst Krolke.

The biggest reasons for delays at Sydney Airport were weather and traffic control in other parts of the world, Mr Krolke said.

Delays caused by bags being loaded or passengers running late were relatively minor.

But the domino effect of late planes causing more late planes was a major issue that all airlines were trying to minimise, he said.

A Virgin Blue spokesman, David Huttner, said the airline had been lobbying the Federal Government for more than a year to publish statistics on all airlines' on-time performance. Mr Huttner said Australia lagged behind the United States and Europe on the issue, which was one of "consumer transparency".

The Federal Department of Transport wrote to airlines this week requesting access to data on lateness be compiled into a regular public report.

However, a spokesman for the Transport Minister, John Anderson, said the Government could not compel the airlines to participate, although most had agreed to co-operate.

He said it was unlikely reporting would begin this year, and only general trend figures would be released.

===========================================

[Lodown]

Latest survey shows that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the world population.

[Three Bars]

This stuff is just absolute and complete b#$%^&t!!

Do the media really believe that QF is involved in a conspiracy to deliberately be late?! Or if they aren't, then a conspiracy to avoid telling the public the reasons why they are late?!

Maybe good ole Joe Public mightn't like the reasons why the aircraft were late if all of the details were released.

Here's a little story that happened on an aircraft I was crewing. The aircraft is a 744 (fully booked) which is ready to leave for LA but is missing four passengers when departure time passes. QF staff find them in the duty free shop. Another five minutes pass and the same passengers are still missing. QF staff find them in McDonalds having a quick bite - after all, it's a long way to LA.

Story 2:
A businessman sitting in the bar hears that his flight has departed - he is supposed to be on it (and apparently his bag still is)! The airline's fault??!!

While both of these stories relate to international flights, I have also seen many delays due to passengers arriving late for domestic flights - some for genuine reasons, others who are looking at the pretty shops!! Do they own watches? Do they ever take personal responsibility for anything? My personal theory is that rational, mature people can have their IQ reduced by at least 50% when they buy an airline ticket. Suddenly they can no longer tell the time, read the gate numbers or (in the case of some air rage incidents) behave like civilised human beings.

Yes, I know that it's their business that keeps me in a job, but when I see this punctuality cr#p in the media it really ticks me off! I (like every other airline pilot here, I'm sure) do my best to ensure that my flights leave on time. Sometimes they do not, and we all know the myriad of reasons why that can happen. Sometimes we may deliberately depart late so that we can accept the last few passengers off a connecting flight. Should we leave them behind to catch the next flight an hour or so later in the quest for an ontime departure?

But this conspiracy rubbish? - gimme a break! What do the punters want - a late, SAFE departure - or a potentially dangerous rushed departure! That's what it comes down to in some cases. I know that most pilots will say that "I'll go when I'm ready and it's safe to do so" - but all this nonsense just may cause one person to push just that little bit harder to get away on time and miss something.

AND THEN WATCH THE MEDIA CRUCIFY HIS/HER MISTAKE!!!!!

[GoGirl]

3 Bars, both yourself and KaptinM have actually managed to paint a clear picture for those who can read through transparent lines.
As the old saying goes, and illistrated in both posts; 'you can lead a horse to water.....'


I flew 2 sectors with QF last week, both flights missing OTD for 2 entirely differing reasons.
Scenario 1 - luggage belt broke at BN
Scenario 2 - BN fogged in

S1 is the fastest way to bring an airport to a standstill and the wally's out of the woodwork ;)
I do not have a solution to this problem, and it is a problem which attributes to OTD debate.
There is something that can be done however, and it begins with asking questions and getting back to the root cause.
Are the staff trained in using the belts correctly, are the belts maintained to a standard, and is this answerable? And when you're getting no joy with an internal investigation, then perhaps taking up issue with the manufacturer of the belts is a reasonable next step?

Shoot me down for picking on what might seem to be such an indiscriminate and incidental occurrance, but it's NOT!
As I said, watch how fast a baggage belt breaking down brings an airport to its knees.

S2 - well, someone on the thread previously mentioned upgrading the ILS to the appropriate category to overcome the issue of fog and arriving aircraft time performance.
The commercial reality is that the cost involved does not warrant the 'inconveniences' endured for the 'few' days of the year that they occur.

i.e we just have to live with it, and probably always will have to in this counrty because the cost outweighs the benefit.

Qantas manangement, in particular, need to be in touch with thier 'ground' staff

:hmm:


Regards
GG

[MoFo]

GoGirl.

The Broken Luggage Belt at Brisbane excuse gets a run every day by Movement Control.

Do you really believe every excuse they give?

[Rudder]

d_concord.

Company would start with 'P" would it?

[dingo084]

MoFo, yes the Movement Controllers can come up with some imaginative "problems". In the case of Bris last Monday morning, I can vouch for the BB Belt being U/S. The checkin line was outside the terminal.

Another good reason for only having 'carry-on'.

There is no simple fix to OT performance, splitting the organisation into 3 'business' units is not one, let alone part of the fix either.

ding

[woftam]

Why the late departures?
It's not rocket science fellas.
35 minute transits? Yeah right!
15 minutes to get them off, boarding 22 minutes before departure?
Hmmmm.
What! You want to clean and cater the A/C too?
What! The operating crew are coming in on another (late) service at the other end of the Terminal.
Can't get the bags off/on quickly enough because we've laid some porters off.
Wait 3-4 minutes for a loadsheet after doors closed.
No pushback tug (laid some more people off)
Tell 'em their dreamin!
Not to mention the 10 minute taxi to/from 16L/34R in SYD.


:confused:

[Antares]

In the US and other countries they have been using ARRIVAL times, for a number of years, to measure on time performance. Get it?!!!!!!!? :ok:

[Waste Gate]

I've flown 15 sectors in the past 7 days. All except the first one were CityFlyers. . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

These are the "off chocks" times (from ACARS).

Sector 1: 2 mins early
Sector 2: on time
Sector 3: 2 mins late
Sector 4: on time
Sector 5: 4 mins early
Sector 6: 1 min late
Sector 7: 1 min early
Sector 8: 2 mins early
Sector 9: 3 mins early
Sector 10: 2 mins early
Sector 11: on time
Sector 12: 1 min early
Sector 13: on time
Sector 14: 1 min early
Sector 15: 4 mins early

With some of the early departures, POCO were pushing to get away early to avoid apron delays due other A/C departing at the same time. Also, weather was favourable (fairly light winds, fewer dumb Marub3 departures for Melbourne).

Hardly stuff to slash one's wrists over . .

WG.

[Woomera]

I've been down the back a bit lately and I really don't see the problem.

The short sector Citiflyers always arrived on time, or, if the long sectors were delayed due to loading full to the brim A330s (very nice passenger aircraft BTW) they arrived on time or early.

At the end of the day it is only a planned schedule, life has a bad habit of screwing around plans made by mere mortals.

There is a time tension that you can build into or out of your schedules. How high or at what level that tension can be maintained is very tricky as it can bite you both ways.:eek:

And yes there is, in almost every transit through the terminal, the echo of the PAs trying to round up checked in pax who haven't turned up for their flights.

I recall at some time or place, pax were advised that there would not be any boarding calls and they should monitor the screens, but I can't remember where and why it was stopped.
But observing the relative dumbosity of some of my fellow travellers I'm not surprised.

[Sheep Guts]

Capt Claret,
I thought recording on time ( fudged) departures was normal. When I started here I didnt at first, but I got some quere looks from the OPS Staff and some discontent. So I changed my ways and did the "ontime fudge Juggle". Of course the Company just retired the Type I operate, so I wonder if....................:p :yuk:


When in Rome.................

Sheep
:{