Conversion to Australian ATPL questions

[777Efoh]

G'day!

I would like to convert a Singapore ATPL to an Australian ATPL and wonder if it's acceptable for the flight test portion of the Command Instrument Rating (CIR) to be taken in a level D sim?

Sent an email to CASA already (no reply yet as its the weekend) but would like to know if anyone has any experience with conversions done fully in the sim. Since I'm current on type (B777), I reckon I'll save more by doing it in the sim then having to through a refresher then test on the baron.

Anyone know how much and where in Australia I can rent 777 sim time?

Regards.

[EPIRB]

There are no 777 sims in Australia as no Australian airline operates them.

[777Efoh]

ok thanks for the replies.

[Sheep Guts]

Just an added extra bit of info. Most Airlines in Australia now, I can say with confidence require all Australian ATPL Subjects passed. The so called conversion will not help you. You will need to complete the entire exam programme.


Regards
Sheep

[777Efoh]

Hi Sheep Guts,

Just to confirm what you wrote, "Most Airlines in Australia now, I can say with confidence require all Australian ATPL Subjects passed. The so called conversion will not help you. You will need to complete the entire exam programme."

So it's an airline requirement and not CASA, correct?

[mjbow2]

777

I ran into a similar propblem. You can do a 'converted ATP' which requires 3 (from memory) written exams and an instrument check ride. this will get your OZ ATPL.

For some reason there are virtually no employers in OZ willing to accept this as suitable qualifications. They all want the 7 ATP subject exams taken.....

BTW, good question... If I could get a CASA examiner to sit in on my next Level D sim PC for the instrument check ride I would save a lot of time, grief and money.....

[777Efoh]

Hi Mjbow2,

So did you do all 7 written exams? I assume you had a FAA ATP?

I am sorta in a predicament. My IR will expire come mar 2004 and since I'm unemployed now, I can't renew my IR because no schools in Singapore can do the IR test. The Singapore CAA won't allow the IR test to be taken abroad as well. So my ATPL is worth as much as toilet paper. That's why I have to convert my licence to either the Australian or FAA ATPL. At least if I continue to be unemployed, I can still renew my IR with the Aust or FAA licence in their respective countries.

I guess finding employment in Aust or US would be nice but with the number of guys with much more hours than I have who are unemployed, I wouldn't bet my chances there. My concern is keeping my licence current and finding jobs wherever that may be...

[GhosRider]

Have you tried any flying schools up north? They might be able to help you.

Alternatively, you may wish to check with ST for employment prospects. They've got 2 learjets (35 and 45) at Seletar doing Medivacs. You can register with them as a backup.

Or how about SIA Cargo?

Just something to think about.

P/S: Just curious.. what are things like in SIA now?

Cheers

GhosRider

[Sqwark2000]

777,

I can suggest conversion to the NZ ATPL following the steps below, courtesy of the NZ CAA website, and then a straight swap to the Oz ATPL throught the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Act which involves handing over a cheque with the required form. Details also avail. from the website www.caa.govt.nz , follow the link PILOTS and hey presto!

This would avoid the need to sit 7 ATPL exams as previously mentioned.

From the NZ CAA Website:

Conversion to NZ ATPL from Foriegn States other than Australia:

For the issue of a NZ ATPL using an unrestricted current quivalent licence and instrument rating issued by the Authority of an ICAO member state as a basis for recognition, each applicant will be required to;

(a) Complete the NZ medical requirements including the issue of a NZ Medical Certificate Class 1, and;
(b) Meet the minimum flight experience requirements for the issue of an NZ ATPL as prescribed in AC 61, and;
(c) Produce evidence of having completed at least 500 hours as pilot in command or 1000 hours as co-pilot on multi-crew operations, in multiengined aircraft, on commercial IFR operations subsequent to the issue of the flight crew licence that has been presented for recognition. Such experience is to have been gained in countries which come under the jurisdiction of the overseas authority that issued the licence, and;
(d) Pass a written examination in ATPL Air Law, and;
(e) Pass an ATPL issue flight test with a Civil Aviation Authority flight examiner then;

Apply to CAA for the issue of an ATPL by submitting all of the following;
· A completed application form CAA 24061/01 together with the licence application fee of NZ$60.00 (both sides of the form must be completed).
· All completed flight test paperwork.
· A photocopy of the applicants current overseas licence and medical certificate.
· Copies of the applicants NZ ATPL Air Law examination credit slip, NZ Class 1 Medical Certificate and the ASL letter issued following assessment.

Notes:
Application for ATPL issue flight tests should be made to CAA on form CAA 24061/03 with an application fee of $NZ1206.00 G.S.T. inclusive for ATPL (A) and $NZ665.00 for ATPL(H).

When issued, each ATPL (Aeroplane) will grant Instrument Rating
privileges.
Persons who undertake ATPL (Aeroplane) issue tests in approved airline
simulators, should note, that if the device used is not approved to full Level 5 (zero flight time) standard, and they are not current on the appropriate aircraft type overseas, it is necessary to complete at least three take-offs and landings in the appropriate aeroplane type in addition to the simulator
phase of the test. It follows that pilots who are current on the appropriate aircraft type are not required to complete circuits in the aeroplane. The only full level 5 simulator in NZ is the Air New Zealand Boeing 747-400 device.

Please note that P1 under supervision, command practice, ICUS or similar time is not acceptable in lieu of pilot in command time.

ATPL issue flight tests must be undertaken in multi-engine aircraft types acceptable to the Director.

Hope this helps.


S2K

[Next Generation]

I can't renew my IR because no schools in Singapore can do the IR test. The Singapore CAA won't allow the IR test to be taken abroad as well.

If no schools in Singapore can conduct the Instrument Rating test AND the CAA won't let the Instrument Rating test be taken abroad ??????????????

And we reckon CASA is difficult!

[777Efoh]

GhosRider,

Thanks for the ST angle. I've thought of that and will probably check them out soon. Btw, Lear 45s all over the world have been grounded as Bombardier found a problem with the tail assembly or something to that extent with the possibility of a loss of control during flight. As for SIA, well, you live in Sg so I'm sure you know what's going on there.

Sqwark2000,

Really appreciate your advice. Any recommendations for flying schools in Auckland? Regarding type ratings, would I be able to transfer my ratings to the NZ ATPL? Sorry I'm new to this conversion thing...

Next Generation,

I don't have any statistics but I'm pretty sure that apart from those that have jobs with SIA, SilkAir, and the Air Force, most of the guys who are self sponsored, probably gave up flying after spending big bucks abroad to get their CPLs. Without a GA environment here, it's practically impossible to build hrs and to maintain currency if one is not employed by the "big 3."

[GhosRider]

777,

Apart from ST, you may wish to think about ValuAir too. The word is that ops are going to start beginning next year and they'll talk to you if you've got an A320 Rating.

How much experience do you have?

Best of luck!

GhosRider

[777Efoh]

GhosRider,

Yeah I know about Valuair. Don't have the A320 rating. Do you know if they will take non-type rated guys? I've got 2600+ total..mostly widebody jet.

Regards.

[GhosRider]

777,

Yes, they will talk to you but A320 type rated gets first pick.

However if you have left SQ on a bad note, chances are you will be hitting a brick wall with ValuAir. The two companies are ......
and you should perhaps look at getting a job out of Singapore if you wish to continue your career in aviation.

Best of luck!

GhosRider

[stillalbatross]

Don't forget that the ATPL flight test in NZ has to be in an aircraft the :mad: at CAA NZ deem to be "complicated enough for displaying the applicant has adequate skills" This means a turboprop or pressurised light twin. Figure on about NZD $1000 an hour and about 10 hours before being allowed to do the flight test , so about NZD$15000 all up. I know of a Euro MD 11 Captain who spent about $25000 as he hadn't flown anything that small for about 30 years but $15000 budget for flying should do it. If the aircraft doesn't break..........

NZ is the only country on the planet that has this requirement and one that has f**ked a good number of careers. It enables operators to stop employees from obtaining the licence as most can't afford it off their own bat and stops plenty from heading overseas where most countries only allow you to work on a foreign ATPL. You have a bunch of exam passes and the experience but cannot afford the actual licence so what you have is worthless.

It doesn't prevent accidents or help anyone except Aust. ATPL holders seeking work here as they don't have to do it to obtain the NZ ATPL.

Another reason why NZ aviation will remain amongst the most backwards in the world. Does anyone think CAA would ever consider dropping it, it's done more harm than good?

Sorry to hijack the thread



:( :(