Crowded Skies BBC2 03AUG03

[radar707]

Pilot Views on this one greatly appreciated at:


ATC Issues (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98090)

[Point Seven]

Not a pilot, but I am wondering why, even though it was a better effort than the woeful When Britain Entered La La Land, do the BBC have this overwhelming compulsion to over-dramatise aviation?

I've said it before on here, the aviation community have had it tough enough over the last couple of years, why make it harder by frightening the travelling public? :confused:

P7

[Jerricho]

Once again P7 gotta agree (making a habit of this dude!)

It's so easy to focus on the negative side of what we do, and when a positive side is shown, we're given sh*t for it (that damn thread about LHR, a model of efficency).

Once again, it's a team game, and should be played as such!

[Jump Complete]

I think there is a parellel thread (ATC issues)

[Kalium Chloride]

All told, I think a better effort than some of the dire rubbish put out on the subject recently. The factual information on particular issues was fairly accurate. Getting the Indian controller on camera was a bit of a coup too.

But I'm inclined to agree with Point Seven - not enough focus on the good side of things. The work of CFMU, for example. Shame they didn't mention TCAS either.

[buzz boy]

dont you think HUGMONSTER was articulate when being interviewed about his airmiss with a fast jet!!

[Flying Boat]

Yep, however.....

I also liked the Turkm........./Saudia re-enactment with the accurate altimetre. They went down to 4,500ft on a QNH/QFE of 1020 on the 'accurate film dramatisation' whilst they were supposed to be mistakenly descending below FL150. (Yes I know this is below FL150)

Could someone with the former Soviet aircraft experience tell me, do these aircraft have metric or US imperial instruments? I thought in the former Soviet Union, all aircraft built there had metric instruments. Another Factor? Not to mention a few others I heard from unofficial sources in the middle east at the time.

On the plus side, a forecast of air travel doubling by 2020 is good news for jobs!

[Cakov]

Before we jump the gun, however...


This is a three-part series - hopefully TCAS etc will come up next time and show what positive steps have been taken and what tremendous improvements such systems have resulted in.

[radar707]

Flying Boat,

would 4500 metres be about FL140?

[Flying Boat]

R707

Yep. Two answers in one go.

Thanks

Feel like a bit of a plonker not realising that one but I have an escape of the 1020.

FB

PS The company I worked for at the time lost a few staff on that flight, it did hit home. A few days of mourning in HO after it happened, with money collected for their families.

[BEagle]

I was asked if I could give them some advice about using the Brooklands VC10 as the Il-76 'flight deck' - but couldn't as I was doing something else that day.

Not a bad effort overall.

[TopBunk]

Well I saw the altimeter as being in feet and one of the old 3 pointer affairs, indicating 14,500 on 1020. Did any one else see the 3rd pointer between the one and the two.

Maybe some of you aren't old enough to remember 3-pointer altimeters.

PS 4500m = 14750ft

[Flying Boat]

If this documentary was meant to teach something, it has succeeded with me.

After this discussion I now know I need to brush up my observation skills and be a bit more analytical.

FB:\

[Shuttleworth]

I thought is was worth watching . looking forward to the next part.

[Low-Pass]

I'm also looking forward to the next part. Maybe then they will go into a little more detail as to how the datalink that issues ATC instructions to the pilots on one of their MFDs will improve the pilot's situational awareness and pick up on errors such as the one that caused John Andrew to lose his life.

After doing a little Frog-bashing about the oposition to make CDG an English speaking airport which would supposedly have prevented the fatality on the cargo Shorts, they then suggest a system which would seem to give even less situational awareness to the pilot (or maybe all the ATC instructions get relayed which would mean a lot of "head down" time in the cockpit. The irony that it was a Frenchman who was suggesting that this new "common language" would improve safety added to it nicely.

In the end, it would appear to be another step towards total automation of the flight deck where the "pilots" are out of work actors with the uniforms on.

Anyone out there got a little more info on the ATC datalink?

Cheers, LP

[martinidoc]

I agree with TopBunk,

It was an old 3 needle altimeter, with the thin needle with arrow pointing bewteen one and two, thereore indicating 14, 500,on an incorrect pressure setting of 1020.

Having never seen a metric altimeter, can anyone explain how one flies to assigned altitudes in feet or Flight levels, without doing a complicated mental converion, with risk of error?

[timzsta]

Martinc - you get the ops department to produce you a handle little table of metres v FL.:ok:

[Lon More]

Low Pass for more than you really wanted to know go to www.eurocontrol.int then use "petal" or "dali" to search further

Lon More, more than just an Atco

[CaptAirProx]

Got to say this data link business seems very curious to me.

It seems that every aircraft is being designed to provide the pilot with less and less natural cues.

I don't fly the Airbus but guess that because of many design features such as no moving throttles, the pilot has to use his eyes to see the engine power change. (No Airbus bashing please just an easy aircraft to use as an example)

The same goes for the side stick not moving.

And now they want to take away a very valuable primary sense of a pilot, his hearing and replace it with looking at further instructions on the MFD.

Soon our eyes will be so over-loaded whilst our hands and ears just sit bone idle. Sounds like a bad move to me.

[Idunno]

I agree with you CaptAirProx. It's the one thing I've always disliked about the Airbus...the over emphasis on 'reading' all info off the instrumentation while abandoning other useful cues.

[Low-Pass]

Thanks Lon More, I've been having trouble sleeping and it looks that this will do the trick.

I suppose at least it will stop pilots from broadcasting their heading and flight level to the passengers while they inform ATC and all other stations on frequency the local time and temperature at their destination.

Cheers,

LP;)

[Kalium Chloride]

Soon our eyes will be so over-loaded whilst our hands and ears just sit bone idle.


Nah...you pilots will be unnecessary long before then. ;)

[peeteechase]

I operate around Europe amongst other places and I would like to compliment the Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians etc. for putting safety ahead of nationalism and insisting on the use of a common language. The Dutch speak english better than most brits and I don't just mean the scottish!
I was appalled to hear that the injured Captain of that Turboprop at CDG was interrogated in his hospital bed and even threatened with manslaughter charges by the CESM police. Reminds me of that crew at Athens who were banged up in clink after they went off on an (unreported) flooded runway.
The plain fact of the matter is those countries which refuse to speak english put their own citizens at just as much risk as foreigners.
Quells idiots n'est ce pas!

[radar707]

Appalling that the pilot was arrested in the Streamline incident, what's more interesting about that particular incident, and I add that I haven't been unable to confirm this, is that the controller who cleared the 360 to line up wasn't actually a CDG controller and had been brought in from another unit to help with the excess traffic form the football that night.

Was the controller arrested???

Anybody know?

[Jordan D]

I've just remember why I don't like to travel via CDG ... the controllers there obviously think they are the best thing sinced sliced bread, and a law unto themselves.

Shame on them.

Jordan

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Peeteechase, I think you will find that the "purest"form of the Queen's English is recognised to be spoken in Inverness, erm,Scotland.
Leevitt aart myt,oi cornt unerstend a ffinG yoo jocks iz siiyyinG !!

[Point Seven]

ENGLISH spoken in Inverness has the clearest accent.

It is not, however, "purest Queen's English".

P7