Bar Downs

[Thunderbird One]

Does the airline you work for take money out of your salary if your bars are down? If so what are your feelings about this?

The airline I work for take money out of our commission if the bars are down. There is no one at bond from our company checking the bars for the Cabin Crew or to agree that what bond say is correct, therfore bond could actually say bars were down even if they weren't. I think it's wrong of the company to do this to the crew and wonder if they can legally do this - does anyone know?

[pinni]

Dont know about your company, but at ours it is in our contract that they take money from our comission if the bar is dowm. And they do!

Dont think legally they can take it from your actual salary though. If you are in a union check with them.

I agree about bond though. We hasve to phisically count our bars anyway, and the number of descrepancies on the C208 are unbelievable.

[pilotwolf]

Not sure if its relevant or if it covers commission but...

The Wages Act 1986, seeks in part to protect employee's wages, by prohibiting deductions, save for tax, national insurance, and attachment of earnings orders. For money to be deducted in accordance with the Wages Act 1986, the employee must have given their express written agreement, or provision should be made for the practice, detailing precise circumstances, in the contract of employment. The latter would be the subject of scrutiny by the Tribunal, and hence it is vitally important to ensure that such contractual documentation is adequately worded. In practice, this means an employee may owe the company money, in respect of damage to company property for example, but the employer is NOT legally entitled to deduct money from wages.

[galley-wench22]

We have money taken from our commission too if the bar is down. I always aim to do an opening stock before we start the cabin service. The amount of times I have found errors on the C208 is unreal. Up and down. Sometimes items are missed off all together. For example... there are 55 Gins in our bar..... shock horror..... C208 reads 0!!!! This has happened on a few occasions.:ooh:

[Viscount Vicky]

Bars are invariably down because they are robbed from in the bond. As soon as it is opened on the aircraft we become liable for discrepancies despite the fact we would all have to be illiterate vegetables to lose so much on these bonds so the deductions continue.

However, if you make your airline aware of this and they contiue to deduct without due investigation, then they are liable to prosecution for the act of theft from the crown. People that defraud the crown go to prison. Its called knowingly allowing a criminal act to occur.

If you have any doubts, don't sign anything and if you have any suspicions being the good law abiding citizens you are report it to the customs and excise service or police. They love nothing than to give some bone idle overpaid management types the squeeze.

If you want to do it more quietly, ask them if they are going to accuse you of something anmd to wait whilst you get your solicitor! that will shut the theiving bastards up and make them think twice. Play them at their own game!

[idgas]

Wow ... Slow down ... think about it.

Quote "Bars are invariably down because they are robbed from in the bond"

Bond staff have access to stock.... Cashiers have access to money... Who has access to both... at the same time?

Food for thought perhaps?

Cheers, :cool:

[TightSlot]

idgas ain't wrong - our company went through a lot of pain on this subject and along with the usual "it's all the Bond" stuff there are some important points to consider.

1. By analysing a bar post flight, it is usually possible, to determine whether a bar is short by cash or by stock or by both. Stock issues may be pointed at the Bond, but it is difficult to exclude Crew from the loop on cash.

2. There are (broadly) 2 areas in a bonded store: The stock/warehouse area where stock is stored, and the area where bars are packed. For accounting purposes, the stock is counted out of the first into the second, so that the airline can be billed for the stock. If you're in a Bond and a robdog, why nick from the packing area, where discrepancies may be noticed by your employer, the crew, or other packers, when you can nick from the warehouse stock, which may not be missed until the next stocktake, possibly in a week or two's time?

3. Some crew nick stock, or money. Only a very, very, very tiny percentage, but it does happen. We know because they invariably get caught in the end, since our employers aren't quite as stupid as they like to pretend. When they finally get caught, it is always a surprise: You can't believe that the person you have sat with on the jumpseat so many times, and shared your highs and lows with has been stealing from the company (and you, of course if you are paying bar downs) but they have. It happens.

4. Some crew nick stuff without realising it. The toilet roll that you took home in your crew bag because you had run out and needed some before tomorrows's visit to the market. The miniature each that was taken from the comp bar after a really bad day: The tonic that you took home because you had run out and needed something to mix with the gin when you got home that night: The cup of coffee that you bought from the machine in the office using your bar float. All minor stuff, but if you get caught and your employer is having a bad day, you may have difficulty explaining it away.

Please don't think that I'm condoning the practise of recovering bar shorts from crew - I'm not. My employer now has a practise of only applying bar shorts to crew in thiose cases where there is a substantial short, and procedures and paperwork have not been adhered to correctly. I believe this to be fair, and have not paid a bar short since the provedure was introduced over a year ago.

If your employer does take bar shorts out of your salary (as previously mentioned, this has a highly debatable legal standing) then there is one question that is important to ask, namely is the short based on the retail price or the stock price. If your bar is short by 10 whisky miniatures, sold on board @ £2 each, so a total of £20, but the company in fact only bought the miniatures from the Bond/wharehouse at £1 each, then by applying the bar short to the crew at the full retail price of £20 means that they are in fact making a profit on the actual bar short, from the crew. Food for thought?
:eek: